Cal 14 said:

Ok, I'm not sure why we still have to have this discussion 20 years in, but Maxpreps does not generate the computer ratings. That comes from Calpreps. There is no 109-4 score on Calpreps for Lake Oswego.

calpreps.com

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MTsince2004 said:

I have long held the belief that they want the top 8-10 schools spread out through the divisions so that the SJS fairs better in the regional games.

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FBAddict said:

FBAddict said:

Here is my far too early WCAL rankings for next year:
#1 JS (or SF)
#2 SF (or JS)
#3 VC (or SI/AR)
#4 SI (or VC/AR)
#5 AR (or VC/SI)
#6 AM
#7 SHC (or BCP)
#8 BCP (or SHC) We should see a definite up tick for BCP but maybe not enough to push out of the bottom three.

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1. Riordan
2. SF
3. VC
4. Serra
5. SHC
6. SI
7. AM
8. BCP

northbaybbguru said:

Lets be real....The move to 16 team brackets (for $$$) in divisions with only 24 teams back in the day led to the 1st round blowouts. U put teams in the playoffs that don't deserve it and then seed them against the powers in the division of course u are going to get blowouts. When the divisions were only 8 they were much more competitive.

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Cal 14 said:

Definitely true.


The initial divisions were not real. That's what people need to understand. They were only starting points.

The insistence on enrollment divisions is what lead to all of the blowouts people complained about. That's what lead most other sections to adopt competitive equity in the first place.

I do think the NCS needs safeguards for the leagues with smaller schools, an increased number of automatic bids being the biggest one, IMO. This would start to include more smaller schools and exclude some of the marginal bigger schools.


Yes.

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dcpanda said:

If Cal wants a player, they can get them in. A Cal coach told me that. A player with a 4.0 is no problem, of course. Stanford and the Ivy League schools are trickier.

For players fit for a lower level, the D3 schools like Pomona are very difficult to get into, even if you’re an athlete.

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LWinslow1973 said:

To be fair.. 4.0 really depends on the academic rigor of the school itself. a 4.0 at DeAnza community college is not the same as a 4.0 at Stanford. So the real test will be how he fairs at the collegiate level academically with the Riordan education system. I dont know enough about either school but just basing it on GPA is ludicrous..

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THEOC89 said:

And if El Cerrito doesn’t blow up this year, EC is in the Open and San Marin is not and it looks a lot better….

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THEOC89 said:

Personally, I just hate 3 and 4 win teams dropping down divisions and taking up playoff spots, doesn’t make any sense to me and it never has…. 🤷‍♂️

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THEOC89 said:

True…. Someone will Always complain….

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NCS707 said:

Not very many schools moved up. Moving down is the joke. The ripple effect is that only 3 actual D7 schools made the playoffs. St Vincent, St Bernard’s, and Ferndale. There was no place for D7 schools to move down to so they didn’t make it at all. Willits was 8-2 and missed NCS.

Do the math. Look at where the NCS commissioner had his teaching/coaching/AD career. Look who benefits the most. The BVAL gets to avoid the DLS machine (minus Pitt) and move down to D2-D4 and the 1 league in the section who actually was created with competitive equity and all the teams played tough non league games, Redwood Empire Adobe, moved up.

Now I will admit CAL made some good points. CN and MC are solidly top 5 in NCS this year and their schedules reflect that. If CN didn’t get lemon booty at MC they could arguably be ranked 2. There just aren’t as many power larger publics in NCS right now. BVAL is way way down and EBAL is slightly down as well. The SJS is just much deeper, with the population and family centric growth out there it makes sense.

I know the NCS has the “DLS problem” and there is no easy solution. Like I’ve said before there really isn’t a school who can elevate themselves on a yearly basis to compete with them. Even Pitt is a Title I-low income school, they’ll get kids transferring in but many families avoid that environment. There’s no Folsom in the NCS. There’s no WCAL either. They’ve been alone on the mountain for 35 years and even before that for much of the 80s as well.

On a side note the Redwood leagues below the Adobe need some easy adjustments, mainly the 2 middle leagues have outliers.

Number of schools to make playoffs by division

D1: 10
D2: 11
D3: 10
D4: 9
D5: 5
D6: 7
D7: 4

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Cal 14 said:

It was the schools complaining about the restrictive old CIF system that lead to this current one.

Bottom line is that someone will always complain.

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Streak One said:

The bigget issue with these new playoff formats is everyone gets to go to a NorCal/State game. And in some cases, losing in the regular season game can help you advance (see Amador Valley losing to California).

I think the discussion would be different if not every section champ advanced to NorCal and you could opt out of NorCals.

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kiddman32 said:

Since the discussions here have boiled it down to the seedings being based almost solely on MaxPreps rankings, the thing that needs to be examined is MaxPreps.

Especially since results sent to MaxPreps aren't completely reliable. If bogus results are sent to MaxPreps, the rankings end up being bogus.

For example, since I lived in Oregon for 18 years, I do check on scores from up there. Their #1 seed in 6A (top division) is Lake Oswego, 9-0. However, two of their results on MaxPreps were obviously wrong, one being something like 222-10 and the other being 109-4. My guess is some goofball sent the wrong ones in to be "funny"). I found the scores on the official OSAA website and sent corrections in myself. The 222-10 score was quickly changed to the proper score and the 109-4 score correction was NOT changed.

In our system depending almost completely on MaxPreps rankings, the seedings would potentially have been quite bogus, especially if said "joker" sent in other stupidly wrong results elsewhere. Fortunately, Oregon has a different setup altogether, not using any rankings, only league standings.

Example here: Would the rankings and therefore the seedings changed if some idiot had sent in incorrect scores to Maxpreps and it hadn't been caught by the few that actually look at scores? Unless the results might not be right, the rankings might not be, either.

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123ag3 said:

we have might have different definitions of relevant. In Fall 2022 they won CCS DII Football, and the NorCal DIII-A championship, losing the DIII-A state champ by 1 point. Winter that year they won CCS DI in soccer and basketball, and Spring 2023 they won CCS DII Baseball.

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observer22 said:

I’m all for using rankings as a guide, but there needs to be some common sense applied. Amador Valley is a way better fit in the top bracket than San Marin. Nobody would have batted an eye if they were reversed.

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NCS707 said:

Not very many schools moved up. Moving down is the joke. The ripple effect is that only 3 actual D7 schools made the playoffs. St Vincent, St Bernard’s, and Ferndale. There was no place for D7 schools to move down to so they didn’t make it at all. Willits was 8-2 and missed NCS.

Do the math. Look at where the NCS commissioner had his teaching/coaching/AD career. Look who benefits the most. The BVAL gets to avoid the DLS machine (minus Pitt) and move down to D2-D4 and the 1 league in the section who actually was created with competitive equity and all the teams played tough non league games, Redwood Empire Adobe, moved up.

Now I will admit CAL made some good points. CN and MC are solidly top 5 in NCS this year and their schedules reflect that. If CN didn’t get lemon booty at MC they could arguably be ranked 2. There just aren’t as many power larger publics in NCS right now. BVAL is way way down and EBAL is slightly down as well. The SJS is just much deeper, with the population and family centric growth out there it makes sense.

I know the NCS has the “DLS problem” and there is no easy solution. Like I’ve said before there really isn’t a school who can elevate themselves on a yearly basis to compete with them. Even Pitt is a Title I-low income school, they’ll get kids transferring in but many families avoid that environment. There’s no Folsom in the NCS. There’s no WCAL either. They’ve been alone on the mountain for 35 years and even before that for much of the 80s as well.

On a side note the Redwood leagues below the Adobe need some easy adjustments, mainly the 2 middle leagues have outliers.

Number of schools to make playoffs by division

D1: 10
D2: 11
D3: 10
D4: 9
D5: 5
D6: 7
D7: 4

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vukovich said:

That’s a really deep field. Bernard’s and Jesuit Portland have never played in it and Catherdral should have their best team in a long time.

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winetot said:

Actually, the Athletic Directors and Coaches voted this system down, it was overturned by the Board of Managers. There was another proposal put up by, I believe, a Boy's Basketball coach that was rejected. The proposal made sense for the people that understand Athletics, it is unfortunate that we allow decisions to be made by people that cannot even spell Athletics.

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Cal 14 said:

As with the same argument I've used elsewhere: everyone knew the rules before the season started. It was literally written into the NCS bylaws what the application of the Calpreps ratings was going to be.


After Brexit passed in the UK, do you know what the #1 Google search in that country reportedly was the day after the election?

"What is Brexit?"

It's up to the member of the organization to stay informed. They don't get to complain about it after the fact.

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rwccaptain42 said:

The Jesuits over at S.I would like to thank the R for beating Serra thus allowing them to share WCAL title. Great week for "Patriots", tough week for Padres!!!

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Cal 14 said:

I don't disagree that the more closed a system is, the more difficult it is for the Calpreps system to accurately gauge the strength of the teams. I believe there is an adjustment for the Northern Section, but I don't think there would be one for the northern portion of the North Coast Section. That said...

Cardinal Newman played:
- Vacaville, #2 team from the Monticello Empire, winner in the first round of the SJS D-II playoffs... beat them by 18.
- Bishop O'Dowd, champs of the West Alameda County-Foothill division, #4 seed in the NCS D-2 playoffs... beat them by 56.
- Pleasant Valley, champs of the Easter League, #1 seed of the NS D-II (top division) playoffs... beat them by 27.

Marin Catholic played:
- Inderkum, co-champ of the Capital Valley league, #4 seed of the SJS D-I playoffs... lost by 26.
- St. Mary's, champs of the Tri-City league, #2 seed of the SJS D-II playoffs... lost by 13.
- Manteca, champs of the Valley Oak league, #4 seed of the SJS D-II playoffs... beat them by 1 (gave them their only loss).
- Edison (Stockton), #2 team from the Tri-City league, #9 seed of the SJS D-I playoffs... beat them by 10.

San Marin played:
- Foothill (Palo Cedro), tied for 2nd in the Eastern League, #2 seed of the NS D-II playoffs... beat them by 20.

Windsor played:
- Campolindo, tied for 3rd in the Diablo-Foothill division, #3 seed of the NCS D-3 playoffs... beat them by 19.

I think we can both agree that the RE-A top teams went out of the area and demonstrated that their ratings were not due to a closed system.


Alisal is the #2 seed of the CCS D-V playoffs. The school's enrollment is 2900. I can assure you that no one is transferring to Alisal for some sort of athletic competitive edge over small schools. Even if athletes started doing so, the team would start to do better and they'd no longer be in D-V. They were in D-III last year.

The largest school in the Pacific Coast-Gabilan division is Hollister at 3450 students. The Haybalers tied for 6th place (out of 7 teams... tied for last).

The real problem with this is the continued reliance on enrollment equating to team strength.


Not true. Bishop O'Dowd is a base D-4 team who is competing in the D-2 playoffs.

Of course, you do understand that if Cardinal Newman and Marin Catholic move to the Open division, other teams will naturally have to drop as a result, right?

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