A Straight Mockery - MM Girls Hoop in NorCal D1 finals

[the_realest]

How does a team win NorCal in 2016, go 27-3 before NorCals the following year 2017, and somehow avoid going to the Open, then go 25-5 this season and whattya know, they avoid the Open AGAIN!!!. To add insult to injury is the 4 seed in D1 as a slap in the face to those who know better. Theres absolutely no shock that MM is on the cusp of a state title appearance in D1.

I could've sworn that one of the criteria for Open selection was sustained success. Yeah, I know, they lost a stud player to graduation after the 16 season, but they've kept winning over the 2 years since Ionescu left.

Gotta love Clay's posts feigning ignorance to whats been going on. Just stop already. Faking it makes you look that much worst. I guess as long as you pump $$$$, you can create the uneven playing field.

 

[Azanna]

How does a team win NorCal in 2016, go 27-3 before NorCals the following year 2017, and somehow avoid going to the Open, then go 25-5 this season and whattya know, they avoid the Open AGAIN!!!. To add insult to injury is the 4 seed in D1 as a slap in the face to those who know better. Theres absolutely no shock that MM is on the cusp of a state title appearance in D1.

I could've sworn that one of the criteria for Open selection was sustained success. Yeah, I know, they lost a stud player to graduation after the 16 season, but they've kept winning over the 2 years since Ionescu left.

Gotta love Clay's posts feigning ignorance to whats been going on. Just stop already. Faking it makes you look that much worst. I guess as long as you pump $$$$, you can create the uneven playing field.

Could not agree more, would not surprise me if they DELIBERATELY lost to Bishop O'Dowd.
BS

 

[iamgearyblvd]

How does a team win NorCal in 2016, go 27-3 before NorCals the following year 2017, and somehow avoid going to the Open, then go 25-5 this season and whattya know, they avoid the Open AGAIN!!!. To add insult to injury is the 4 seed in D1 as a slap in the face to those who know better. Theres absolutely no shock that MM is on the cusp of a state title appearance in D1.

I could've sworn that one of the criteria for Open selection was sustained success. Yeah, I know, they lost a stud player to graduation after the 16 season, but they've kept winning over the 2 years since Ionescu left.

Gotta love Clay's posts feigning ignorance to whats been going on. Just stop already. Faking it makes you look that much worst. I guess as long as you pump $$$$, you can create the uneven playing field.

Lets just be honest, lets just be real... , Seeding committee did Miramonte a favor not placing them in Open. NO ONE is beating Mitty this year.

 

[the_realest]

Lets just be honest, lets just be real... , Seeding committee did Miramonte a favor not placing them in Open. NO ONE is beating Mitty this year.

It doesn't matter if they did them a favor or not. They should've been in the Open the past 2 seasons. 58-9 over the past 2 seasons coming off of a NorCal title.

So what is the criteria for the Open then? CN clearly wasn't an Open team, and one could argue the same could be said for BOD this season. Last season SHC went 18-9, didn't win their section and headed to the Open while MM 27-3 won their section, again fresh off of a NorCal title in the Open, but was 2 seed in D2. Someone please explain how any of this makes just a tad bit of sense? It would be nice if they just came out and said they aren't going to the Open anymore because we got it like that, instead of reading Clay's ducking and dodging explaining how anyone but them is an Open candidate. Just spitting facts! System is broken and tilted!

 

[mkbgdns]

would not surprise me if they DELIBERATELY lost to Bishop O'Dowd.

says more about you than the game. watch it online. be cool.

 

[OnBall8]

I think we (on this forum) give Clay too much credit for his pull on the committee. I could be wrong, and maybe he/kelly is in someone's ear saying the things he says here. Personally, I see Clay as just overly modest as he tries to play the "completely objective" card as he comments on his team as well as others on here. He doesn't want to come off as cocky or post some "locker room" material for some possible opponent out there, and I get that. MM may have griped for being placed in Open if they got creamed, but at the end of they day, they have to play who they have to play, not their fault.

From my memory, no one made this big of a stink when Mitty was in D2 in 2015 and rolled everybody including a 22 point win in the state championship. But on the same token you also didn't see coach phillips on this board stating one way or the other about their season/ seeding/ credentials/ etc... so to each his/her own I guess. If MM wins it all congratulate them and get over it. If they lose, don't rub it in and get over it.

 

[ClayK]

I generally don't respond to this kind of thing, but the_realest made his/her position clear with his/her first posts.

But Azanna, I'm disappointed. Anyone who saw the O'Dowd game knows full well that both teams went all out to win. It was a tremendous game, and O'Dowd made more plays at the end of the game. The one girl who had struggled at the line dropped in four straight free throws late, and Holland hit a dagger of a three after a quarter of outstanding play.

Cardinal Newman did not belong in the Open. I have no idea how that happened. Miramonte certainly would have been a candidate to take their place, along with several other teams. If Miramonte and CN had switched, Cardinal Newman most likely would be playing for the D1 title -- I wonder if the_realest would have joined if that were the case?

Again, Cardinal Newman's placement in the Open was, in my opinion, completely unjustified. It made zero sense, but the mystery 20-person committee felt differently.

Finally, supposedly the criteria for the Open are based entirely on this year's performance. Past performance, which counted in the past, no longer applies.

 

[becoolpt55]

I Call BS... everyday...all day long...
4 years ago Kelly went to Wyoming instead of playing in the WCJ...and before the Wyoming tournament was talking smack on his Facebook page about how great the comp...was...
I called BS then and call it now...

 

[kiddman32]

says more about you than the game. watch it online. be cool.

I think Azanna was kidding... I sure hope so...

 

[kiddman32]

As far as the original poster intimating that $$$$ is being used to bribe the committee... now THAT is definitely NOT COOL!

 

[SouthBayHoopFan]

From my memory, no one made this big of a stink when Mitty was in D2 in 2015 and rolled everybody including a 22 point win in the state championship.

Without trying to go back and look at the archives, I seem to recall a lot of chatter about whether the Monarchs had tanked that year by losing to Eastside Prep in the CCS Open first round. I remember reading on this forum that Coach Phillips had played the freshmen (Ortiz, Blakes, Miyahara) too much in that game. I have to chuckle as I type that -- what a master stroke to prepare those players for the future.

 

[mkbgdns]

famous image of bathroom appliance, provided by artiste who has reincarnated and become cool. it may also have been applied to Pinewood, more chuckles by "modern" standards.

 

[kiddman32]

Ummmmm... Say what??

 

[mkbgdns]

image banished from board in an act of fascist censorship and good judgement, its name must not be spoken.. artiste disappeared later reincarnated under new handle, still provoking chuckles with grudges against top Norcal coaches. his handle? you've been given all the clues you need.

 

[RespectBBGame]

I told everyone foe the past 6 years that this was happening. Money comes in form as State Farm which sponsors CIF. NORCALPREP ranks teams that most have CALSTARS players. The Norcal Selection committee use Norcalprep and Maxprep for Seeding which Clay has influence on both! You have to give them CREDIT in Monopolize high school girls basketball !!!!!!!!!

 

[Norm75]

Monopolizing and monetizing high school girls basketball.

 

[northbaybbguru]

Without trying to go back and look at the archives, I seem to recall a lot of chatter about whether the Monarchs had tanked that year by losing to Eastside Prep in the CCS Open first round. I remember reading on this forum that Coach Phillips had played the freshmen (Ortiz, Blakes, Miyahara) too much in that game. I have to chuckle as I type that -- what a master stroke to prepare those players for the future.

Phillips played 18 players in that game (a close 3pt loss). They went on to win the D2 state. I was not at the game but spoke to a coach (of another CCS Open team who watched it) who had a few choice comments. It certainly looked suspicious at the time and still does today.

 

[colhenrylives]

I told everyone foe the past 6 years that this was happening. Money comes in form as State Farm which sponsors CIF. NORCALPREP ranks teams that most have CALSTARS players. The Norcal Selection committee use Norcalprep and Maxprep for Seeding which Clay has influence on both! You have to give them CREDIT in Monopolize high school girls basketball !!!!!!!!!

Incorrect. The CIF website includes a wide range of sponsors but State Farm is not one of them.

 

[SouthBayHoopFan]

Incorrect. The CIF website includes a wide range of sponsors but State Farm is not one of them.

Actually, I think "Les Schwab Tires" is just a shell company that funnels illegal backchannel contributions from State Farm to its puppet state basketball committees across the nation. Of course we all know it would take more than a simple misdirection to throw respect off the money trail.

 

[yogibball]

Could not agree more, would not surprise me if they DELIBERATELY lost to Bishop O'Dowd.
BS

No way can you be serious. I watched that game and saying MM lost on purpose is an insult to the MM players along with the players for BOD. Obviously there are some issues with Clay, and others but come on, those players played their heart out. Leave them out of it. I don’t even know the name of the MM point guard but tell her in person she intentionally lost that game. I would love to see her reaction. After seeing that game I thought both teams would go to the open.

 

[winetot]

Clay - Did you say that past years success was not criteria this year, solely based on this year performance? Well, if that’s the case you still are ahead of CN... I would stop trying to justify MM not being in the open.

As far of those asking about State Farm being a CIF partner, how much influence do you think Sopak has on any of that ? He’s a one man shop in Albany. That’s just lack of knowledge on the insurance industry !

 

[ClayK]

I completely agree that if the choice was between Miramonte and Cardinal Newman for the Open that Miramonte should have been selected. Miramonte beat La Jolla Country Day and Cardinal Newman lost to them. Case closed.

(I don't know why people keep saying I didn't think Miramonte belonged in the Open. What I have said is that one of several teams, including Miramonte, could have been chosen. One of those several was not Cardinal Newman.)

Interesting, though, that no one is saying that Presentation, which the committee clearly thought was the ninth best team in Northern California -- and had a higher computer ranking than Bishop O'Dowd, Cardinal Newman or Miramonte -- should have been in the Open.

But the committee apparently just did random things depending on its mood. St. Joseph Notre Dame, a section champion with a win over Carondelet (which beat Miramonte), would have appeared to have been a solid candidate as well. Or how about Pleasant Valley, which is now zeroing in on a NorCal Division II title?

Again, Miramonte was a viable candidate for the Open, among a bunch of other teams. Whoever was chosen would have been a low seed and sent off to Mitty or St. Mary's -- I just wish CIF would tell us why teams were placed where they were.

 

[OnBall8]

Phillips played 18 players in that game (a close 3pt loss). They went on to win the D2 state. I was not at the game but spoke to a coach (of another CCS Open team who watched it) who had a few choice comments. It certainly looked suspicious at the time and still does today.

Considering they only had 15 players on the roster that is just wrong. Only 10 kids recorded any kind of stat in that game, so maybe there were a few more kids who got into the game, but clearly didn't play enough to stumble upon a single stat.. maybe not as suspicious as you make it sound.

Personally, I think there are very few coaches that would ever chance losing a game in order to win one in the future. If you think that coaches are going to trade the uncertainty of winning a section title for the greater uncertainty of winning a state title you're just as delusional as you think they are... I expect it from the bald personal trainer from san jose/ stockton but not from you guru

 

[alwayslearning]

Interesting, though, that no one is saying that Presentation, which the committee clearly thought was the ninth best team in Northern California -- and had a higher computer ranking than Bishop O'Dowd, Cardinal Newman or Miramonte -- should have been in the Open.

Because no one thought any team from the WCAL should be seeded high to begin with let alone Presentation who quietly played themselves into a #1 seed, 2nd place in WCAL and Final 4 in D1 with arguably a lot less talent. St. Francis also Final 4 team D1 with a lot less talent. But there were truly 85 teams that don't belong in the Open. It really should have been a 3 team open division with Mitty playing the winner of SMS v. Pinewood, which is what happened anyways.

D1
#1 Salesian
#2 Cardinal Newman
#3 Miramonte
#4 Carondelet
#5 Presentation
#6 SH Cathedral
#7 ESCP
#8 St. Francis
#9 St. Josephs
#10 Valley Christian
#11 Heritage
#12 Antelope
#13 Bear Creek
#14 Cosumnes Oaks
#15 McClatchy
#16 West Campus

 

[basketba11]

I have to be completely honest, I did not think Miramonte would be dominating the D1 teams like this. They smashed Edison and Antelope, before going to Presentation (2rd place WCAL team that everyone is saying best league in CA) and beating them easily as well. I knew they were very good team, but am surprised at how they have pretty much dominated. I know many on this site believe they should have gone to the Open, and with their performances they have definitely shown that. But they deserve credit after losing to BOD, they look to be playing their best basketball of the year right now, credit to Kelly and his staff and good luck against SHC (tied for 2nd place in WCAL-best league in CA). If they win this game, IMO they have earned it!

 

[basketba11]

I've seen and heard enough of all the talks of collusion, tanking, paying off the committee, State Farm, etc. Geez, enough is enough already. This is high school girls basketball, can't we just enjoy it and give praise to those teams that are having success and getting it done on the court. Making it to the NorCal finals is not easy, these teams should be commended! Of course there is politics involved, as there is with everything in life. There are always going to be tough decisions made, and some will be upset and some will be okay with it and move on. Impossible to make everyone happy. Most people on this site were undecided when trying to figure out the last 2 teams to make the prestigious Open bracket. I think most people agreed the top 6 were automatic (Mitty, SMS, Folsom, Salesian, Pinewood, Carondelet). BOD won NCS D2 and if you look at their schedule, they have a lot of losses but all were to legit teams, so winning D2 NCS crown definitely played them into Open. The last spot was not obvious to anyone on this site. It was between NCS D2 or D3 runner up, NCS D4 champion or possibly from SJS, either D2 winner or D4 winner. I think most agree (even Clay) that the last spot should not have gone to CN, instead should have probably gone to MM or SJND. But there were arguments and close games throughout the season that could have gone either way, it wasn't clear cut then and still shouldn't be now.

 

[mkbgdns]

It really should have been a 3 team open division with Mitty playing the winner of SMS v. Pinewood,

I did not think Miramonte would be dominating the D1 teams like this.

a week ago, I thought an Open with the best 2 out of 3 between Mitty and SMS was a good idea. good thing that, for a change, I kept my mouth shut.

it's possible that MM kids and coaches are dedicated learners, and encountered an unsparing teacher in BOD.

 

[the_realest]

I think the point is being missed. I find it ironic that MM hasn't sniffed the Open since 2016, despite having one of the best records the past 2 years combined.
Lesser teams have been chosen over them. Their 4 seed in D1 lets you know that they weren't even considered for the Open this year. Doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out they're playing by different rules than all other teams in NorCal.

Last year was a head scratcher being that MM had a better record than SHC and better record/MaxPreps rating than Salesian, yet those teams weren't coming off a NorCal title. Then this year happens. Its all more than suspect. With who is on staff there (top AAU team coach, NorCal preps and MaxPreps stakeholder, WCJ head honchos) make for horrible optics. It just doesn't look good, let alone fair. Straight up, it reeks of bias.

Again, I just want to know if the same rules and criteria are being applied objectively to all teams in NorCal, regardless of affiliation. Or are there certain rules applied differently to a selective few teams????

 

[OnBall8]

JUST. STOP. WHINING.

 

[the_realest]

How is asking those questions, whining? Also, you don't have to read if you don't like, let alone respond. Kick rocks

 

[mkbgdns]

last year, they lost to Vanden in DII, creating at least one team ahead of them in the list on non-selectees to the Open. this year, well, the DI winner will be the Prime Suspect, but there's a game left to play.

 

[the_realest]

The point I'm trying to make is criteria regarding the selection. Regardless if they lost last year or not, they definitely should've been open last year and this year. Why is Miramonte not being selected? How did MM go 27-4 win section a year after winning NorCal, while still having the sustained success criteria applicable, yet not go to the Open? This year?

Again, their exclusion looks SUSPECT AS HELL!

 

[personalogic]

last year, they lost to Vanden in DII, creating at least one team ahead of them in the list on non-selectees to the Open. this year, well, the DI winner will be the Prime Suspect, but there's a game left to play.

In the interests of harmony, and preventing further finger pointing, defamation, and conspiracy theories, I would like to put forward a completely fair and transparent methodology to be implemented next season.

After all regular season games are played, the names of all girls' high school basketball teams in the State of California will be drawn randomly. The first name drawn will be crowned Open Division champion and given a trophy and photo op. The 17th name drawn will be Division One champion. The 33rd name wins Division Two, etc.

No formal games will be played. However, all high schools will keep their gyms open for a month for girls' pick up games. No coaches or parents allowed.

Also, this board will be shut down for a month to let Clay heal up from all the bruising he takes.

 

[OnBall8]

How is asking those questions, whining? Also, you don't have to read if you don't like, let alone respond. Kick rocks

It is nothing but whining.. you clearly created this account just B**** about it to someone. What happened happened, in regards to seeding.. only thing you (or rather WE) can do now is try to prevent it from happening again, at least not under the cloak of anonymity as Clay said. Let it be known who this mysterious committee is, and make them answer for their actions/reasoning. But as far as this current playoff goes, lets get back to enjoying these games. Back to arguing about who we think will win, not who we think should have lost if such and such would have happened. After March 24th I'm all for getting our pitchforks and demanding change for next year, but for now PLEASE lets concentrate on what happen/ed on the court and not what happened behind closed doors one night a few weeks ago, its tiresome and we will never get the answers we want no matter what side of the argument we are on.

 

[basketba11]

The point I'm trying to make is criteria regarding the selection. Regardless if they lost last year or not, they definitely should've been open last year and this year. Why is Miramonte not being selected? How did MM go 27-4 win section a year after winning NorCal, while still having the sustained success criteria applicable, yet not go to the Open? This year?

Again, their exclusion looks SUSPECT AS HELL!

We all know the point you are trying to make. And there are many more out there that totally agree with you. But like OnBall, it is time to move on from it and change is definitely needed. A new subject on this forum should be created to suggest all the changes needed for next year. First is the committee needs to release their criteria used.

 

[Azanna]

I've seen and heard enough of all the talks of collusion, tanking, paying off the committee, State Farm, etc. Geez, enough is enough already. This is high school girls basketball, can't we just enjoy it and give praise to those teams that are having success and getting it done on the court. Making it to the NorCal finals is not easy, these teams should be commended! Of course there is politics involved, as there is with everything in life. There are always going to be tough decisions made, and some will be upset and some will be okay with it and move on. Impossible to make everyone happy. Most people on this site were undecided when trying to figure out the last 2 teams to make the prestigious Open bracket. I think most people agreed the top 6 were automatic (Mitty, SMS, Folsom, Salesian, Pinewood, Carondelet). BOD won NCS D2 and if you look at their schedule, they have a lot of losses but all were to legit teams, so winning D2 NCS crown definitely played them into Open. The last spot was not obvious to anyone on this site. It was between NCS D2 or D3 runner up, NCS D4 champion or possibly from SJS, either D2 winner or D4 winner. I think most agree (even Clay) that the last spot should not have gone to CN, instead should have probably gone to MM or SJND. But there were arguments and close games throughout the season that could have gone either way, it wasn't clear cut then and still shouldn't be now.

MM does not really piss me off I just feel like Antelope should have been given the opportunity to win a D2 State title. Looking how D2 is playing out I have a hard time believing that Antelope would not be playing this Saturday. Antelope wins its first section title in school history no one gave them any real credit all year and they get bumped up to D1. Oh well life isn't fair good luck MM on Saturday.

 

[OnBall8]

MM does not really piss me off I just feel like Antelope should have been given the opportunity to win a D2 State title. Looking how D2 is playing out I have a hard time believing that Antelope would not be playing this Saturday. Antelope wins its first section title in school history no one gave them any real credit all year and they get bumped up to D1. Oh well life isn't fair good luck MM on Saturday.

In the old format MM would have still been in D2 had they not made open.... so the road would still be through them...

 

[basketba11]

MM does not really piss me off I just feel like Antelope should have been given the opportunity to win a D2 State title. Looking how D2 is playing out I have a hard time believing that Antelope would not be playing this Saturday. Antelope wins its first section title in school history no one gave them any real credit all year and they get bumped up to D1. Oh well life isn't fair good luck MM on Saturday.

Azanna, you guys had a great season this year! That 1st section banner is great for the school and it's program! Co-league champs before the changes next season!
What upsets me more than MM is the dropping of Pleasant Valley to D2 and West Campus to D3. Those 2 placements were much more difficult to understand than MM. But I guess I need to follow my own advice and stop whining, LOL.

 

[mkbgdns]

Azanna, thank you for your honesty. I suspect your indignation leaked over into suggesting MM rolled over for BOD. I saw Antelope, and they're a fine team, girls to be proud of. hopefully, the girls are ok with their last game of the season, even though they lost big. MM was on their game. I'm confident the girls get that their season was 32 games, not the last one.

I think that the creator of this thread has a similar personal beef that is cloaked in High Moral Outrage. at this point, I don't want to know, or care, what it is. he can feel free to dismiss my lack of moral standards by my residence in Area 51.

I also agree we've only got 6 games left now in Northern California, let's enjoy them. and the DVI championship was decided by a single point on Tuesday. there's some good girls' basketball available online to whet your appetite for the other Norcal Championships.

 

[Streak One]

Couple of things I'd like to touch on.

Miramonte wasn't a slam dunk open choice either of the last two years. You could make a case they belonged both years, one year or none.

The idea of a conspiracy is just unfounded. The seedings were bad this year but that has to do with people put in decision making positions who don't belong there and not some conspiracy but you keep looking for those UFOs.

Miramonte is a lightning rod program in our region but the assertion they may have thrown a game also is unfounded. The general consensus is if you want to be taken seriously as a program, you need to play and likely win games in Open. Miramonte has that in their recent history but making the D3 finals last year and whatever this year becomes will move the needle only slightly in terms of program perception. It is a great experience for program and community and I think that balance is ok.

In terms of NCP rankings, I'll reinterate again that we don't have a basis for or against any club or HS program. Aruguments like this come up when no facts are present to support a claim. I think our rankings are among the best in the area and stand by that.

Finally, Clay is a very respected voice on this board and in the Girls BB community. However, he isn't a stakeholder in NCP as was previously brought up.