All CIF State Title football games to be played in SoCal

[Cal 14]

Mercury News reports that in addition to the one site where 5 CIF state bowl games had been played, two more sites in SoCal will host a collection of games.

El Camino College and Pasadena City College will be the additional sites.

My guess is that the top 5 games will be split up to ensure as much attendance at each site.

https://www.mercurynews.com/2023/10...california-colleges-to-host-all-15-divisions/

 

[Streak One]

I don’t have a good answer on how to host these games but I feel like we are going to have a lot of empty stadiums.

Spreading out the top games is an interesting concept but I wonder if they will have their top games competing against each other that way. And could make it tougher for the TV setup.

Here is the CIF release - https://cifstate.org/sports/football/st_fb_sites_23

 

[THEOC89]

Another Dumb move by the CIF…. There are plenty of great Venues in Nor Cal to play games as well as they could play at that great Stadium at Buchanan in Clovis for someplace in between….

 

[MadDawgSS]

It doesn't make financial sense to play the games in Norcal plus the weather is too cold.

 

[ThunderRam]

It doesn't make financial sense to play the games in Norcal

How do you know? Are you the CIF’s chief accountant??

Crowds looked ok to me when I attended. Better than they’ve looked on TV in SoCal the past few years.

plus the weather is too cold.

According to who? We’re in California, not North Dakota.

Lots of States play their games in much colder, worse weather. Sounds like a giant excuse to me.

Not only that, I seem to recall severe wet and rainy weather several times when the games were hosted in Carson, CA. IIRC one of those years was 2010 when both Folsom and Palo Alto beat Serra-Gardena and Centennial-Corona respectively.

The weather ain’t always great down there either.

 

[larry legend33]

I’ve said it before and I will stick to my guns.
It seems like these games have lost some potency to me over the years. Nothing beats a great league champ or section battle. Heck, even a norcal champ game has so much more. I’ve been too and seen so many state games that are blah…. Low attendance, stadiums too big for venue, and just drawn out after a long season. It will be game 15 or so for some of these teams? Just my 2 cents.

 

[Streak One]

I’ve said it before and I will stick to my guns.
It seems like these games have lost some potency to me over the years. Nothing beats a great league champ or section battle. Heck, even a norcal champ game has so much more. I’ve been too and seen so many state games that are blah…. Low attendance, stadiums too big for venue, and just drawn out after a long season. It will be game 15 or so for some of these teams? Just my 2 cents.

I agree on this. I think for any event to be good, you need clear context about how teams get there. At the section level, you know in the non-league and league what those games mean for the playoffs (though the shifting of criteria has hurt this too). At the NorCal level, that context goes down, but for the most part, fans know of these teams and areas and generally how it fits together. But when you go to another level of state, the context goes down again and outside of Open (which has a run of blowouts that doesn't look to be ending soon), most of them feel like random games at the end of a long season.

Again, I don't have a a great solution for it and the teams that advance to the last weekend are all good teams and are making some fun memories. But the state bowls have a different feel than they did in those first few years.

 

[bella123]

I’ve said it before and I will stick to my guns.
It seems like these games have lost some potency to me over the years. Nothing beats a great league champ or section battle. Heck, even a norcal champ game has so much more. I’ve been too and seen so many state games that are blah…. Low attendance, stadiums too big for venue, and just drawn out after a long season. It will be game 15 or so for some of these teams? Just my 2 cents.

I agree with this. First year with 3 games very enjoyable. Adding the Open with 4 other games to me was the best set up. 5 games is perfect. Now way too watered down and way to many games. I don’t believe the overall interest is there.

 

[larry legend33]

I agree with this. First year with 3 games very enjoyable. Adding the Open with 4 other games to me was the best set up. 5 games is perfect. Now way too watered down and way to many games. I don’t believe the overall interest is there.

Absolutely Bella and streak. My all time favorite was newman vs oaks Christian. Gotta be one of the best near David and Goliath games ever. (Grant probably takes the cake however). Even Folsom vs Serra game from way back when…. We are all football junkies but it gets to be a little much now.

 

[MC415]

Absolutely Bella and streak. My all time favorite was newman vs oaks Christian. Gotta be one of the best near David and Goliath games ever. (Grant probably takes the cake however). Even Folsom vs Serra game from way back when…. We are all football junkies but it gets to be a little much now.

Marin Catholic almost taking down that incredibly insane loaded Serra team in 2009 was pretty cool……George Farmer, Paul Richardson, Robert Woods and Marquise Lee was their starting WR corp lol

 

[FBAddict]

Absolutely Bella and streak. My all time favorite was newman vs oaks Christian. Gotta be one of the best near David and Goliath games ever. (Grant probably takes the cake however). Even Folsom vs Serra game from way back when…. We are all football junkies but it gets to be a little much now.

That CN vs OC game was incredible. And wasn't it the first of the SBG series? I remember the game ending regulation in a tie. OC eventually won in OT but that was a great start to the series. Unfortunately, SoCal won all three games that year.

 

[FBAddict]

Marin Catholic almost taking down that incredibly insane loaded Serra team in 2009 was pretty cool……George Farmer, Robert Woods and Marquise Lee was their starting WR corp lol

That too, was a great game.

 

[BigMann08]

I think the only way to bring greater parity and excitement back is to create two separate tournaments and state associations for public and private schools. I'm surprised that the privates in California haven't made a move toward this; especially because it will give them full control and autonomy over athletic affairs. It could also create greater equity among the schools. The associations can still play one another in the pre-season, (and in some rare instances league) but their post-season competitions would be separate.

 

[ThunderRam]

I’ve said it before and I will stick to my guns.
It seems like these games have lost some potency to me over the years. Nothing beats a great league champ or section battle. Heck, even a norcal champ game has so much more. I’ve been too and seen so many state games that are blah…. Low attendance, stadiums too big for venue, and just drawn out after a long season. It will be game 15 or so for some of these teams? Just my 2 cents.

I fully agree that Section and NorCal games are much more appealing. I've made the argument before that they should bring back the NorCal and SoCal Open and discontinue the State game.

I can't speak to SoCal, but here in NorCal the Open game would almost always have more interest and attendance. Think of all the DLS-Grant Union, DLS-Elk Grove, DLS-CCS Champ games we missed over the past 30 years. Games that would have generated a ton of interest.

I vividly remember the grassroots swell for DLS v. Elk Grove in 1998 when both teams were out of this world. Everyone wanted to see Lance Briggs vs. DJ Williams. There was talk of both teams/coaches willing to play each other but the CIF squashed it.

The Grant Union v. Folsom section title game at Sac State in 2010 drew over 20K. More than a few of the projected NorCal match ups during the 90's and early 2000's would have drawn similarly.

If they don't want to bring back the Open game, then NorCal should implement what the SS does down South by having an OPEN bracket that all the best teams in NorCal can opt into.

I agree with this. First year with 3 games very enjoyable. Adding the Open with 4 other games to me was the best set up. 5 games is perfect. Now way too watered down and way to many games. I don’t believe the overall interest is there.

I think you hit the nail on the head. The expansion to 13 games really drained interest. There's just too many games and too many State champs. It's become over-saturated. I get why they did it, but in doing so they zapped much of the hype and intrigue.

When they only had 3 State games, and then even expanded to 5, it made advancing to the State game much more of a big deal. Not only were the schools way more hyped, so were all the fans in the region.

There are upsides and downsides to both the old 3 and 5 game set up and the current 13 game set up, but as far as I can tell, among the biggest downsides is that the overall interest and importance has been severely diminished.

 

[Cal 14]

I think a lot of people are forgetting who the games are for. They're not for you.

 

[bella123]

That CN vs OC game was incredible. And wasn't it the first of the SBG series? I remember the game ending regulation in a tie. OC eventually won in OT but that was a great start to the series. Unfortunately, SoCal won all three games that year.

Yes that was the first game. Newman had a 4th and goal and was going to go for it, but had a false start that pushed them back so they kicked the FG to tie it and send it to OT.

The dude who had the uncharacteristic false start was coincidentally Newman’s best player, Al Netter. He played at Northwestern. I believe he was the only guy on that team that went D-1, @larry legend33 ?

He had a few years with the Niners, then got into coaching. Was on Harbaughs staff at Michigan then was at Yale for years and this year Troy Taylor brought him on staff as co-offensive line coach at Stanford.

 

[larry legend33]

Yes that was the first game. Newman had a 4th and goal and was going to go for it, but had a false start that pushed them back so they kicked the FG to tie it and send it to OT.

The dude who had the uncharacteristic false start was coincidentally Newman’s best player, Al Netter. He played at Northwestern. I believe he was the only guy on that team that went D-1, @larry legend33 ?

He had a few years with the Niners, then got into coaching. Was on Harbaughs staff at Michigan then was at Yale for years and this year Troy Taylor brought him on staff as co-offensive line coach at Stanford.

Great memory. Yes netter had a good career at NW and now is at Stanford coaching. Smart kid. They may have had another kid play somewhere but I can’t recall. Otherwise just a gritty bunch with a tough QB as their leader.

 

[Sacchiefs]

Good discussion so far!

For me, I lost a lot of excitement after the NorCal Open championship game was cancelled. Especially with the decision the selection committee made the first year out the gates with the new set up in 2014. I'll share more of that at the end of this conversation.

I also don't like that some of the section losers are allowed to advance to the regional championship game. Major head scratcher for me.

Finally, it's a personal issue, but in 2014 I was pretty bummed with the selection committee. I wanted to see a DLS vs Grant championship game.

Hold up!! And take a deep breath! Or count to 10 if you need to!

Before anyone turns into a keyboard warrior on me. Disclosure, I'm not interested in going back and forth with anyone on who was better and or more worthy that year of being selected to the Open Championship game. Please stay on topic. I'm simply saying that I was disappointed because I wanted to see that game happen. And obviously it did not.

For those reasons, since 2014 the state bowl games haven't been that interesting to me.

 

[bella123]

Great memory. Yes netter had a good career at NW and now is at Stanford coaching. Smart kid. They may have had another kid play somewhere but I can’t recall. Otherwise just a gritty bunch with a tough QB as their leader.

Yes, Lingle played the second half at QB on a broken ankle. Kind of goes back to my point. I can vividly remember that as well as Aaron Corp at OLU vs. Paly and Canyon upsetting DLS. But outside Serra, DLS and Folsom, I probably couldn’t name 10 other NorCal teams who have played in SBG’s in the last five years.

 

[THEOC89]

Good discussion so far!

For me, I lost a lot of excitement after the NorCal Open championship game was cancelled. Especially with the decision the selection committee made the first year out the gates with the new set up in 2014. I'll share more of that at the end of this conversation.

I also don't like that some of the section losers are allowed to advance to the regional championship game. Major head scratcher for me.

Finally, it's a personal issue, but in 2014 I was pretty bummed with the selection committee. I wanted to see a DLS vs Grant championship game.

Hold up!! And take a deep breath! Or count to 10 if you need to!

Before anyone turns into a keyboard warrior on me. Disclosure, I'm not interested in going back and forth with anyone on who was better and or more worthy that year of being selected to the Open Championship game. Please stay on topic. I'm simply saying that I was disappointed because I wanted to see that game happen. And obviously it did not.

For those reasons, since 2014 the state bowl games haven't been that interesting to me.

Totally Agree!…. The removal of the Nor Cal open playoff is the worst thing the CIF has done to Nor Cal HSFB….

Would much rather see a true Nor Cal champ crowned every year rather then this farce of just handing it to DLS or an undeserving Serra every year…. And the schools, kids and fans have all been deprived of the opportunity for a Real Championship and some great Nor Cal matchups…..

But we have no one to blame other then the CIF, SJS and Folsom for this….

 

[ararar]

We all know the fix.A true state playoff with 6 divisions.I know the sections are king so we are stuck in playoff hell.

 

[Prepwisdom]

I would have to agree with most on this post that there are now probably to many " state championship " games. I was fortunate enough to have officiated the Serra Gardena- Folsom game of 2010. Played on a saturated field at the Home Depot Center- Folsom upset Serra and thus put themselves on the High School Football map. An interesting side note to that game was Serra players warming up prior to the start all wearing illegal three quarter inch cleats which was brought to our attention by the Folsom staff. The start of the game was slightly delayed as the Serra players had to retreat to the locker room and change out their cleats!

 

[mrbig864]

…I was fortunate enough to have officiated the . An interesting side note to that game was Serra players warming up prior to the start all wearing illegal three quarter inch cleats which was brought to our attention by the Folsom staff...

New poll question

What do you find the least surprising part about the above post?

1) That Serra seemed to be intentionally trying to cheat by wearing what they must‘ve known were illegal cleats
or
2) Folsom staff pointing it out to the officials

🤣🤣🤣

 

[pantera-cat]

I really have a hard time understanding why everyone complains about having too many Bowl games. That’s right, I called them Bowl Games. The only State champ is the Open winner.

Living close and having coached for Ripon High years ago, the whole town was on fire and the stadium was packed to the seams to play Highland from who knows where. Nobody around town had ever heard of Highland, but knew there boys had 1 more game to finish off a great season!!

Question is, if we kept it to the top 10 schools or 5 games, would Ripon have been CHOSEN to play? Probably not. But those kids got a chance to play 1 more game that they’ll remember for life.

It might not have been an attractive game for someone in San Jose, Fresno or even LA, but who cares. We have a state with over 1,100 schools, every Section champ should be rewarded with a game to play against an unknown opponent. Call them whatever you want, Bowl Games, State Games, who cares. For us small school pubic school fans, it was a fun game to go watch.

Until they do away with sections, divide privates and publics and create enrollment based brackets for each, it’s the best option for what we’ve got. If you want only 5 games, just watch the top 5 brackets. Let us peons get excited for a 4A game.

 

[parkdale]

I’ve said it before and I will stick to my guns.
It seems like these games have lost some potency to me over the years. Nothing beats a great league champ or section battle. Heck, even a norcal champ game has so much more. I’ve been too and seen so many state games that are blah…. Low attendance, stadiums too big for venue, and just drawn out after a long season. It will be game 15 or so for some of these teams? Just my 2 cents.

I agree. I'm not really sold on the state playoff bowl system and would be OK with it all ending after section title games. But there's no putting the

 

[parkdale]

horse back in the barn. The state wants it, media outlets wants it.

 

[larry legend33]

New poll question

What do you find the least surprising part about the above post?

1) That Serra seemed to be intentionally trying to cheat by wearing what they must‘ve known were illegal cleats
or
2) Folsom staff pointing it out to the officials

🤣🤣🤣

Good point. But given that game and how wet it was and the speed that Serra had it wasn’t out of line. But I honestly didn’t know there was any rules on cleats.
That is bigger surprise. Hell I don’t even think they make screw ins anymore

 

[FBAddict]

I really have a hard time understanding why everyone complains about having too many Bowl games. That’s right, I called them Bowl Games. The only State champ is the Open winner.

Living close and having coached for Ripon High years ago, the whole town was on fire and the stadium was packed to the seams to play Highland from who knows where. Nobody around town had ever heard of Highland, but knew there boys had 1 more game to finish off a great season!!

Question is, if we kept it to the top 10 schools or 5 games, would Ripon have been CHOSEN to play? Probably not. But those kids got a chance to play 1 more game that they’ll remember for life.

It might not have been an attractive game for someone in San Jose, Fresno or even LA, but who cares. We have a state with over 1,100 schools, every Section champ should be rewarded with a game to play against an unknown opponent. Call them whatever you want, Bowl Games, State Games, who cares. For us small school pubic school fans, it was a fun game to go watch.

Until they do away with sections, divide privates and publics and create enrollment based brackets for each, it’s the best option for what we’ve got. If you want only 5 games, just watch the top 5 brackets. Let us peons get excited for a 4A game.

I differ an some points but agree with your overall premise. They are, in fact, bowl games - a quick glance at the CIF state webpage for football makes that clear. Currently the system is better then when a select few teams were chosen by committee to play in the state bowl games. Now every section division champ gets an opportunity to compete at a broader level.

The CIF does need to take control of the sections to unify criteria for divisions. Whether it is enrollment, equity or some combination, it needs to be the same for every section. And most likely the sections need to be realigned so there is a better balance among sections. This action would allow for a true playoff system.

I don't want to miss your point - that it was wonderful for a smaller community to have their high school football team to advance after their sectional championship game. That is the beauty of the current system.

 

[Streak One]

I really have a hard time understanding why everyone complains about having too many Bowl games. That’s right, I called them Bowl Games. The only State champ is the Open winner.

Living close and having coached for Ripon High years ago, the whole town was on fire and the stadium was packed to the seams to play Highland from who knows where. Nobody around town had ever heard of Highland, but knew there boys had 1 more game to finish off a great season!!

Question is, if we kept it to the top 10 schools or 5 games, would Ripon have been CHOSEN to play? Probably not. But those kids got a chance to play 1 more game that they’ll remember for life.

It might not have been an attractive game for someone in San Jose, Fresno or even LA, but who cares. We have a state with over 1,100 schools, every Section champ should be rewarded with a game to play against an unknown opponent. Call them whatever you want, Bowl Games, State Games, who cares. For us small school pubic school fans, it was a fun game to go watch.

Until they do away with sections, divide privates and publics and create enrollment based brackets for each, it’s the best option for what we’ve got. If you want only 5 games, just watch the top 5 brackets. Let us peons get excited for a 4A game.

This post hits on this topic well and has been brought up by others. How you view the bowl system is your personal perspective. Some general takeaways

For the FB teams/communities that are directly involved: Awesome experience

For the winter sport coaches at some of these small schools: Less awesome

For the state: Great because its financial beneficial to have more games

For the fans: Mixed bag. More football isn't a bad thing but we do miss out on some of those big time matchups from past years.

In the end, it isn't changing

 

[bella123]

I differ an some points but agree with your overall premise. They are, in fact, bowl games - a quick glance at the CIF state webpage for football makes that clear. Currently the system is better then when a select few teams were chosen by committee to play in the state bowl games. Now every section division champ gets an opportunity to compete at a broader level.

The CIF does need to take control of the sections to unify criteria for divisions. Whether it is enrollment, equity or some combination, it needs to be the same for every section. And most likely the sections need to be realigned so there is a better balance among sections. This action would allow for a true playoff system.

I don't want to miss your point - that it was wonderful for a smaller community to have their high school football team to advance after their sectional championship game. That is the beauty of the current system.

Good post. Ive been saying it for years, get rid of the sections. There is no need for them, I’ve never really understood their purpose other than to cost money and create inconsistencies. 10 commissioners salaries? Its like these cities/counties with numerous schools districts (way to much admin overlap).

The CIF should be one single entity in charge of the entire state. No more discrepancies in transfers/rules and interpretations by various sections. The UIL is in charge in Texas so no excuse that California is “to big or spread out.” Even level playing field for all. No more ridiculous losers keep playing on.

Cut the regular season to 9 games. Try to make leagues sizes as consistent as possible. 6,7,8 teams. Leaving 2-4 game flexibility for non league or OOS games. You can have state wide playoff and keep then regional (Norcal/Socal) say first 3-4 rounds (Like OH/GA/TX etc) . Once you get to the semifinal then open it up, so yes someone may have to travel a but in back to back weeks.

You can have say Fresno (god forbid) as the finals host spot, but if you go back to 5-6 teams the CIF could realistically budget travel expenses for the championship schools. Hell partner up. “Southwest The Official Airline of the CIF Championships.”

There are plenty of ways to improve the product. Unfortunately, I feel that the CIF is a huge subscriber to that age old theory of, “Well thats the way we’ve always done it” and they would have to evolve. Their website is not very good and they sure don’t market very well. I mean participation numbers are on a downward trend the way you reverse that is get your product out there. Just seems to me there’s a lot of wasted potential. Hell the CIF should have their own TikTok page every week, market it to the kids.

 

[FBAddict]

Good post. Ive been saying it for years, get rid of the sections. There is no need for them, I’ve never really understood their purpose other than to cost money and create inconsistencies. 10 commissioners salaries? Its like these cities/counties with numerous schools districts (way to much admin overlap).

The CIF should be one single entity in charge of the entire state. No more discrepancies in transfers/rules and interpretations by various sections. The UIL is in charge in Texas so no excuse that California is “to big or spread out.” Even level playing field for all. No more ridiculous losers keep playing on.

Cut the regular season to 9 games. Try to make leagues sizes as consistent as possible. 6,7,8 teams. Leaving 2-4 game flexibility for non league or OOS games. You can have state wide playoff and keep then regional (Norcal/Socal) say first 3-4 rounds (Like OH/GA/TX etc) . Once you get to the semifinal then open it up, so yes someone may have to travel a but in back to back weeks.

You can have say Fresno (god forbid) as the finals host spot, but if you go back to 5-6 teams the CIF could realistically budget travel expenses for the championship schools. Hell partner up. “Southwest The Official Airline of the CIF Championships.”

There are plenty of ways to improve the product. Unfortunately, I feel that the CIF is a huge subscriber to that age old theory of, “Well thats the way we’ve always done it” and they would have to evolve. Their website is not very good and they sure don’t market very well. I mean participation numbers are on a downward trend the way you reverse that is get your product out there. Just seems to me there’s a lot of wasted potential. Hell the CIF should have their own TikTok page every week, market it to the kids.

This is a bit off topic but prompted by your reference to Texas HSF, I went over to the texas website for a quick refresher on how their divisional structure was set up. I was surprised that they got rid of their dual divisions at the 6A class. Now there is little dispute who is the real top level state champ.

Anyway, they have 11 classes (or conferences) 1A through 6A. All classes (1A-5A) except for 6A have 2 divisions. Classes 1A, divisions 1&2 are for 6 man football teams. So that leaves 9 classes for 11-man FB.

PS Note: Further reading shows there is still 2 divisions in 6A. So that is 10 classes for 11-man FB. The 6A divisions are handled differently than the other classes (conferences). All other classes 1A-5A are assigned to their respective division before the season start. For 6A, the top 4 teams of a district go to the playoffs with 2 teams go to Division 1 and the other 2 teams being assigned to division 2 according to enrollment.

Their structure is as follows:

Conferences (or classes) labeled by letter number and division number
Regions (like CA sections)
Districts (like CA leagues, although some districts must have sub-districts that require playoffs within the district for defining the district champ because of the large number of teams in that district)

I just don't know enough about the Texas structure to be clear. But what is certain is that this system could work in CA.

 

[ankleassassin]

I think a lot of people are forgetting who the games are for. They're not for you.

that part. these kids dream of playing in game 15 at that big stadium and saying they are state champs. it allows them to come on this board and boast cuz 95% on here never had the chance.

 

[LecheDeMiPalo]

This won’t happen……..

But what I would like to see happen is for the CIF to invest some money into an athletic complex near Fresno which is roughly the geographical center of the state. The complex would have to be near hotels, restaurants and other amenities of course. But given how many sports the CIF sanctions throughout the state (Football, Basketball, Basketball, Wrestling, Track, Volleyball, Soccer, Swimming, LaCrosse, Etc.) I think the complex and the idea of earning a trip to it would eventually grow in popularity. With so many sports, it would get more than it’s fair share of use and create a few jobs.

This state caters so much to the dumbass idea of LA / Hollywood. There’s no glitz or glamour about the part of the state. Let the town teams will be headed to be about some grit!

 

[ThunderRam]

I think a lot of people are forgetting who the games are for. They're not for you.

Love ya, Cal, but that’s utterly naive and false.

It may sound good to you, to say it’s for the students/athletes/schools, but if nobody is attending or watching the games, they wouldn’t exist. That’s precisely why games beyond Section didn’t exist until 2006 (State) and 2012 (Regional). They were implemented for $$$. Not for the reason(s) you are pushing.

All sports are driven by fan interest/attendance. The rare exceptions to that rule are either subsidized or don’t have the financial means to scale up their sport as HS football clearly has. Look at the prices on the tickets today (and for streaming). And they charge more for postseason and bowl games. That should be your first clue who these games are for. The second clue was expanding from 3 to 5 to 13 Regional and State games. It wasn’t for the kids, it was to create more fan interest/attendance and more total revenue for the CIF.

 

[ThunderRam]

I really have a hard time understanding why everyone complains about having too many Bowl games. That’s right, I called them Bowl Games. The only State champ is the Open winner.

Living close and having coached for Ripon High years ago, the whole town was on fire and the stadium was packed to the seams to play Highland from who knows where. Nobody around town had ever heard of Highland, but knew there boys had 1 more game to finish off a great season!!

Question is, if we kept it to the top 10 schools or 5 games, would Ripon have been CHOSEN to play? Probably not. But those kids got a chance to play 1 more game that they’ll remember for life.

It might not have been an attractive game for someone in San Jose, Fresno or even LA, but who cares. We have a state with over 1,100 schools, every Section champ should be rewarded with a game to play against an unknown opponent. Call them whatever you want, Bowl Games, State Games, who cares. For us small school pubic school fans, it was a fun game to go watch.

Until they do away with sections, divide privates and publics and create enrollment based brackets for each, it’s the best option for what we’ve got. If you want only 5 games, just watch the top 5 brackets. Let us peons get excited for a 4A game.

Good post. I completely understand the POV.

IMO, it’s precisely why the CIF expanded to 13 games and have many of them hosted locally. Because they know fans of those communities will be into it and attend the games. Which, again, adds more revenue to their bottom line.

But, lastly — and I’m not referring to you pantera-cat — but anybody that shares this POV I don’t ever want to hear about player safety concerns from them ever again.

There’s lots of extra games being played at the Regional and State level that have nothing to do with determining a Regional/State Champion. So those that are ok with the extra games and extra risk for what are essentially exhibition games, more power to you. I’m not suggesting I’m against it per se, just that it’s hypocritical to be concerned about player safety all while endorsing Bowl games that really have no meaning in the grand scheme.

As most have acknowledged, only the OPEN game is a true Regional/State Championship game.

 

[colhenrylives]

...and even the Open finale is not a true playoff game...it's an equity bowl game...

 

[ankleassassin]

This won’t happen……..

But what I would like to see happen is for the CIF to invest some money into an athletic complex near Fresno which is roughly the geographical center of the state. The complex would have to be near hotels, restaurants and other amenities of course. But given how many sports the CIF sanctions throughout the state (Football, Basketball, Basketball, Wrestling, Track, Volleyball, Soccer, Swimming, LaCrosse, Etc.) I think the complex and the idea of earning a trip to it would eventually grow in popularity. With so many sports, it would get more than it’s fair share of use and create a few jobs.

This state caters so much to the dumbass idea of LA / Hollywood. There’s no glitz or glamour about the part of the state. Let the town teams will be headed to be about some grit!

but then you have to go to fresno. nobody wants to go to fresno. even people in clovis are ashamed of fresno. and there is NOTHING near fresno besides, fresno.

 

[mrbig864]

…

All sports are driven by fan interest/attendance. The rare exceptions to that rule are either subsidized or don’t have the financial means to scale up their sport as HS football clearly has. Look at the prices on the tickets today (and for streaming). And they charge more for postseason and bowl games. That should be your first clue who these games are for. The second clue was expanding from 3 to 5 to 13 Regional and State games. It wasn’t for the kids, it was to create more fan interest/attendance and more total revenue for the CIF.

Maybe “All PRO Sports” are driven by fans/attendance. I’d say a majority of high school sports are NOT driven by fans, thy are for the kids. Football and maybe boys basketball being the exceptions, not the rule.

so while I do agree with the premise that these bowl games are heavily influenced by $, a majority of high school athletics are strictly for the kids - hell, high school sports for the most part - loses money.

 

[ThunderRam]

Maybe “All PRO Sports” are driven by fans/attendance. I’d say a majority of high school sports are NOT driven by fans, thy are for the kids. Football and maybe boys basketball being the exceptions, not the rule.

so while I do agree with the premise that these bowl games are heavily influenced by $, a majority of high school athletics are strictly for the kids - hell, high school sports for the most part - loses money.

In theory it is for the kids, but in reality that’s just not the truth. Not in this day and age, and hasn’t been for a long time. Open your eyes.

Men’s football and basketball subsidize most every other sport. That’s especially true at the collegiate level, but is also typically true at the HS level.

Fan attendance drives everything. With that, often sponsorship and advertising follows. Where do you think the $$$ to fund everything is coming from otherwise? Facilities, maintenance, officiating, coaching, etc, costs a ton of money.

At schools where attendance is super low or null (Highlands HS for example) they can’t field JV teams for pretty much every sport. Some don’t even have cheer squads.

Postseason football as we know it in the SJS didn’t even exist until the 1970’s. Even then, it was quite limited. Just the top 2 teams from each league. Then in the late 90’s they expanded the field. And they’ve done so a few more times over the past 20+ years. Including adding State games in 2006 then Regional games in 2012.

None of the above was done “for the kids”. It was driven by increasing fan interest and the revenue that could be generated by it. Same applies to televising/streaming HS games — which rarely if ever was done before — and traveling out-of-state for marquee match ups. If it was all “for the kids“ these changes would have been put in place 50, 60 years earlier. But they weren’t.

Like it or not, the marquee HS sports have been hijacked similarly to collegiate sports. And, again, the marquee HS sports fund everything else. So decisions are made not in the interest of kids, but in the interest of maximizing revenue to keep the ferris wheel turning 24/7. Revolutions.

 

[mrbig864]

Thunder, I’m not arguing that HS football and basketball aren’t about more than the kids, and that money and fan interest were driving factors to where we are today. I was merely disagreeing with your statement “ALL” sports are for fan interest/attendance..

Here is a list (off the top of my head) of High School sports - how can you tell me these sports are for the fans and attendance?

ZERO FAN INTEREST - only parents and grandparents watching
Water Polo, swim, tennis, wrestling, boys volleyball, cross country, track, softball, badminton (yes, that’s a high school sports mostly in the MEL and the Bay Area)

LIMITED FAN INTEREST - very small interest from the student body and a few die hards
baseball, girls volleyball, girls basketball

FAN INTEREST - Bring it on!
football, boys basketball

I’m sure I’m forgetting some sports, but all I was saying originally is that a majority of high school sports are for the kids - and I truly believe that.

now if you want to go down the “pay to play” road ( ie. travel ball, club sports, AAU, etc) - that’s a totally different animal.