Dublin beats Cardinal Newman today
- Thread starter ksummer4b
- Start date
How's that hater aid tasting? I agree with Onball....totally newsworthy. After being blown out by Pinewood in their first game and Pinewood barely beating CN, it was a great win for Dublin. That's why they play the game. Anyone see it?
Never that. It's just not newsworthy. Cardinal Newman isn't a power house this year. This is a down year for them. They have 1 D1 player and so does Dublin. Why celebrate? This year is all about matchups and Dublin matches up better with Cardinal Newman than they do Pinewood. Not to mention its a preseason game. They don't hand out trophy's in December. Let's not go overboard during a down year in nor-cal zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
While I 100% agree with you match ups make all the difference in the world, Dublin beating CN in more than a foundation game matters. This is a down year perhaps for just about every so call power house team in Norcal, so it is what it is. And a win over a good CN team is something for an under dog like Dublin to celebrate and build off. It's also a wake up call to every team that if you don't continue to improve and pay close attention to detail, you may come up short in March. Congratulations to Dublin !
Last edited:
Why do you think this game matters? CN isn't an open division team this year. Neither is Dublin. Who does it matter for? Does it matter because of the name on the jersey? How is Dublin the under dog? Dublin has been good and has had players the last 4 years. Dublin has had a D1 player on their squad the last 4 years including this year. Everyone knew their would be parity this year. I don't get being overly excited about a win in December against a non open team. Let's revisit in March!
Sure enjoy winning and definitely enjoy playing the games but newsworthy is a different story. I just don't think this win is bulletin board material. It doesn't surprise me that Dublin beat CN. They are down this year like everyone else. If fact I would be careful because they may have to see CN again when it counts.
Its a good win for Dublin. And they have every right to celebrate. Preseason or not.
I wasnt there so dont have a take on the game.
Suffice to say with SHC loss to St Joes also I have to re-evaluate my early rankings. At this point im not sure who IS really good. It may just be that EVERYBODY is not as good as I think and there may be quite a bit of these "upsets" all year long.
I wasnt there so dont have a take on the game.
Suffice to say with SHC loss to St Joes also I have to re-evaluate my early rankings. At this point im not sure who IS really good. It may just be that EVERYBODY is not as good as I think and there may be quite a bit of these "upsets" all year long.
It's December! lol. Be patient and let these coaches coach. The SHC loss to St Joes doesn't shift the rankings. St Joes was ranked ahead of SHC so there's nothing to re-evaluate. SHC was also down a starter due to illness and another barely played because she was sick. no excuses though a loss is a loss but again it's DECEMBER! Remember that SHC record last year and everyone counted them out. They lose to MM in December and then beat them for the Nor Cal title. Teams are just figuring out who they are right now.
The CN loss to Dublin is actually going to help them. All of these teams face guarding Aniya won't be able to do that later in the season if their coach and figure it out now.
Because you play every game to win. And if polled well over 50% of the folks out there ( perhaps even Dublin) would have had CN favored to beat Dublin. Sure every team should approach every game ready to make the so call favorite team prove they're the better team in every game. In this particular game CN didn't prove they were better than Dublin. And you can't fast forward to March and skip over the work and accomplishments put in early in the season. No, instead you build off everything that got you to the position you put yourself in come March.
Last edited:
This is a good win for Dublin, even if neither team will be in the Open division come March. While many threads on here are about Open teams, this board covers a wide range of topics and teams, not just the top 8.
CN was hot and had beaten a decent Cal High team by about 50 recently, the same Cal that beat VC yesterday. Dublin may not make the Open or win the EBAL, but it’s still a nice win for them that most did not see coming. If Mitty or C-Let beat Dublin it may not generate more than a yawn from most people but there’s nothing wrong with a congratulatory post from your brother.
CN was hot and had beaten a decent Cal High team by about 50 recently, the same Cal that beat VC yesterday. Dublin may not make the Open or win the EBAL, but it’s still a nice win for them that most did not see coming. If Mitty or C-Let beat Dublin it may not generate more than a yawn from most people but there’s nothing wrong with a congratulatory post from your brother.
this board often misidentifies the strongest teams, those commented on, as "high school girls' basketball". there are, by maxpreps count, 457 girls' teams in Norcal. when I read comments to the effect that girls' basketball is "down" I realize that what's being said is that the top 5 (or 10) are not as strong as in an average year, or even as in most years. I suppose that matters if national ranking is your concern, but to me it opens up the field for league, section, region, and state titles. as a spectator, it offers the possibility for surprises.
this minor (and no doubt temporary) lessening of the gradient among the top 20 is, to me, a welcome change.
People will think just because the norm (top 5-10) aren’t as loaded they’ll misconcept that norcal bball is down as a whole which isn’t true. Change is good and opportunities present for the less popular teams to rise that have talent but aren’t popular from the naysayers! I love change and underdogs.
Of course you play to win every game and every win counts but that win in my opinion is not bulletin board material. Every win is a good win for any team. If you randomly polled folks who have not seen either team play yes that might be the response you get. I have seen both teams play and it's not a David vs Goliath. Again Cardinal Newman isn't as talented as they have been in the past so it's not a shock to me that they lost to Dublin. That's all I'm saying! Yes, I can fast forward to March if that's MY perspective! Section and state championships last time I checked are not won in December they are won in March. That statement does not disregard any effort put in by a team or coach. If it was March and CN had a number 1 seed and Dublin a 16 and they won that would be bulletin board material. Not a game between two evenly matched teams in the pre-season.
CN was hot when? They lost 2 of their last 3 games before this one. Neither Dublin or CN will be in the Open. They are both Division 1 teams. In reverse if Dublin beat CLet or Mitty that would be bulletin board material. Beating another team that is of the same caliber is what a good program should expect to do.
Every team presents different matchup problems and/ or advantages. CN recently came close to beating Pinewood. And Pinewood is more than capable of beating just about anyone in the state. Perhaps CN caught Pinewood on a night Pinewood was cold and CN was hot? Perhaps CN matched up well with Pinewood? Perhaps Pinewood and a few other teams are over rated? Or perhaps as I have always believed there is not that much that separates the better teams from the pretty good teams. And that is why you must keep working to be a better team in March than you are in November/ December. CN loss two games (to two quality programs/ teams Pinewood and SHC) by a total of 4 points prior to losing to Dublin. So I wouldn't exactly call CN Bums. After losing to Pinewood and Heritage by about 30 points per contest getting a quality win against a quality CN oponent Dublin deserves a congratulations IMO. But hey..... I can respect your opinion to disagree.
Last edited:
I agree this is a solid win for Dublin. As we all know having a win like this can be a confidence builder and create a team run. Good win!
Right, which is why in my earlier post I said that Dublin matches up well with CN. They also have a D1 player and have had good teams and players in the past so it doesn't surprise me that they won the game. I've seen both teams play and wouldn't expect CN to blow the doors off of Dublin. I never said CN were bums so I'm not sure where your going with that. Them not being as strong as they have been in previous years is not suggesting they are at the bottom of the barrel but suggesting that they have to come to play every game because the field is even this year. Every team win is a step in the right direction but is this game bulletin board material in December?....idk....It's not an unranked Michigan State beating #3 Oregon lol.... I would also be careful celebrating on a public message board against a team that they may see again in March
These early season results are information, really -- after Cardinal Newman beat O'Dowd and hung with Pinewood, it seemed as though they were better than expected.
Dublin, meanwhile, had lost to Pinewood by 34 and Heritage by 27, so it certainly seemed that Newman would be the favorite (comparative scores with Pinewood would suggest that CN would win by 31).
So maybe the win wasn't shocking, but it was certainly surprising, especially by 10 points, and to me, it says a lot about the parity in NorCal (except for Haley Jones) this year.
The rankings and thoughts about the relative strength of teams definitely were shaken up by Dublin's win, so I definitely consider it a big deal. And as I am less focused on postseason results than most (too much luck involved in single games against relatively equally matched opponents), the run of play during the season is more important to me than to folks like CityBoy.
Dublin, meanwhile, had lost to Pinewood by 34 and Heritage by 27, so it certainly seemed that Newman would be the favorite (comparative scores with Pinewood would suggest that CN would win by 31).
So maybe the win wasn't shocking, but it was certainly surprising, especially by 10 points, and to me, it says a lot about the parity in NorCal (except for Haley Jones) this year.
The rankings and thoughts about the relative strength of teams definitely were shaken up by Dublin's win, so I definitely consider it a big deal. And as I am less focused on postseason results than most (too much luck involved in single games against relatively equally matched opponents), the run of play during the season is more important to me than to folks like CityBoy.
Bottom line is "every" game counts. I'm sure it seems like no big deal, but the 4 years every player has in high school will go by a lot sooner than you think. And you won't be able to go back and re-write the outcomes. And the point you made "rankings and thoughts about the relative strength of teams definitely were shaken up by Dublin's win, it was certainly surprising, especially by 10 points". Those facts are hard to argue, at least on the surface. CN in the past had 2 or 3 dam near 7 foot girls on their team at the same time, of course they may never have that luxury again. Them or no other team. But that said, I don't think CN has ever had a more talented starting backcourt ( Cargil, Choice) than they have now. So this too is a special CN team IMO. And Dublin stepping up and pulling the upset should not be taken as just another game. Games like that can have a huge impact in turning the momentum and confidence of a team around. A team which may have had a miserable season with out that spark of confidence. If anyone watched The Saints game yesterday and saw what type of lift their blocked punt provided, I'm sure you can relate. It better have been a wake up call to CN and everyone else to not under estimate any team at any time. Congratulations to Dublin !
Last edited:
Again, it's the pre-season. Yes, CN beat O'Dowd but O'Dowd also lost to Oakland High. There wasn't anybody on here ranting and raving about that which to me is more of an upset than Dublin over CN. Just the same as CN lost to SHC who lost to St. Joes. Or St. Joes getting blasted by Salesian. That should have been some type of inclination of how much parity there is this year. Not to mention you can't compare scores of who played similar competition and assume anything. Teams have to play the games. The rankings don't mean anything until the post-season. There's just as much luck in the pre-season against evenly matched teams as there is in the post season so you lost me there also. Maybe it's a shock to people who have not seen Dublin play or know their personnel but if you've seen them play you'd know that they match up well with CN and them winning the game wasn't impossible. Again, every win counts and means something but that win to me isn't bulletin board material. I'm confused on how you aren't focused on post season results when that's when teams are at their best and have experienced a full season and are in the swing of things. That doesn't make sense at all but to each his or her own.
Agreed, every win counts! But Bulletin board material shout outs, no. Not this early in the season. The rankings were already shaken up when Oakland High beat O'dowd. This win added to the notion that this year will be the most evenly matched year that we've seen in a long time. Agreed, this is CN most talented back court maybe ever but are they unbeatable? No, they just lost to SHC who also lost 9 seniors last year and is "rebuilding". We place to much emphasis on pre-season rankings before teams have had a chance to play. IMO Dublin has a good enough team and enough talent that they should expect to win games where they match up well. Again, they have a D1 player on their team maybe 2 and some other kids that can play. They also have a little more experience than CN overall with a lot of juniors and seniors. But hey let's give them the a trophy now for the win and throw a parade in downtown Dublin! I hope they saved some of that same energy for Heritage tomorrow!
Sure Oakland upsetting Odowd was a surprise and may have also impacted the perceptions and rankings. But both Oakland High and SHC have coaches that I believe have won a state championship or two. And Oakland's coach is related to one of the best players to ever play in the state. So they both understand the game. And they can recognize, develop, and prepare for talent. I personally don't know much about the Dublin High coach or his past success. I'm not even sure if he was coaching Dublin when they were IMO 20 point under dogs who beat Carondelet in the NCS championship 4 seasons ago. If so that was perhaps his and the girls basketball team's biggest recent win to my knowledge. Please correct me if I'm wrong. And although players must execute, coaching and/ or lack there of often plays a big part in developing game plans, preparing players and rotations, and making game time adjustments which often results in many wins and losses. Obviously Dublin hasn't done anything spectacular beating CN at this stage in the year. But never the less it was a good step in the right direction for both the players and coaching. I'm sure if CN had won far less people would have been shocked with that result. If they follow up an impressive victory against CN with an upset of Heritage, I think far more people will be surprised. Dublin has had good talent for a few years, and I've seen them mange to often beat themselves. So yeah, I am both happy for them and surprised. Perhaps winning tougher games and playing better is over due for them. I think based on your comment about two well coached teams SHC and Oakland pulling off perhaps small upsets being compared to Dublin's small ( but a bit more surprising) upset over a well coach CN team, you probably give less credit to the impact of coaching then I and many other folks do? Or since I don't know much about the Dublin high coach's past success, you or someone else can inform me of the Dublin coach's past success, which might make the upset less surprising. Congratulations Dublin on what many( not all) consider a good win over a quality opponent in CN.
Last edited:
Your right and I do agree that both SHC and Oakland High have good coaches. I will also say that I've never seen a coach make a lay up or take a charge in a game. With that being said players play the game. You can be a great coach but if you don't have the personnel it's tough to be successful. 3 years ago O'Dowd beat Oakland High by 80. Same coach and a couple of the same players as freshman. Coaching didn't matter then because he didn't have the players. The coach at Dublin is new to that program so no he was not there when they beat CN in the NCS. Obviously he can coach and they have players this year which is why they have scheduled the way they have this year. Again, Dublin has 1 D1 player and maybe another sophomore who will be a D1 player by the time she's done with a solid supporting cast. I have seen them play and have seen the players play in the summer so it's not a surprise to me. So many of you just see the name on the jersey and determine who should win or lose based on that instead of talking about the facts. Those facts being that Dublin has players this year. Dublins coach was previously at Terra Nova where they didn't have the players to compete on this level. Does that mean that he can't coach? No, it does not.
Obviously you have to have the players. But some coaches have the players and don't put them on the floor. Or run them off to other schools. You can be the best baller in the world but you can't ball from the bench. And you can't ball as well if the coach puts you in the wrong position on the floor based on your talent, size, and ability. I think the fact that a new coach came in may be the difference in why the team may be playing with more discipline, confidence, and togetherness. Again the one player that holds all the power is the coach. Because that player is playing the most significant part.Thanks for pointing out the coaching for me since I didn't know. I do know Mel Finau is a good player. I don't know of any other standout player they have. If you say the younger player may eventually be a D1 player, I'll take your word for it. As I respect many of your comments. But remember you can have the best players in the state but someone has to make them play together well as a team. Talented players can help you win games you are favored in and 50/50 games. But rarely does talent alone pull off upsets. And rarely does talent alone help teams over achieve. And many times poor coaching helps good talent under achieve. Every coach has had a bad day at the office even the best. So to think coaching does't play a major part in winning championships, over achieving, and pulling off upsets wouldn't be true. This was just a game that I think was a good win for Dublin that you don't think much of. And neither of us will totally change our opinions based on our overall knowledge of the game, the teams in question, and circumstance. So I say we're both right and move on. Thanks for the feed back and your perspective.
Last edited:
Agreed about coaching and that's a totally separate topic I'm sure we both agree on. I'm not sweeping this win under the rug either. It's a good win, but the headline read NEWSWORTHY and to me this isn't that. Maybe he didn't expect his brother to win that game which is why it's newsworthy to him and many other people on here. What he has done was put the spotlight on Dublin by that post and now teams will be prepared and come to play. Possibly using this as lock room material before the game. I'm sure Heritage will. It's funny how the basketball gods work and CN may very well get that rematch in a Division 1 Nor-Cal match up come post season
.
Personally I think Heritage losing to Clovis North was gonna motivate them already. And winning games even one person thought you wouldn't is a good thing. Having teams bring their best effort to a game should bring the best effort out of the teams they play. Otherwise why is anyone playing the game? I have been around that scary type of coaching before recently, and I think it sucks. Good coaches want their team's to get the best challenge possible. Especially when they think they're ready for the challenge. Even if they're not ready, it gives the team an awareness of what they need to work on. Continued improvement is always key. And CN being ready, I'm sure won't stop Dublin from also preparing to take on the re-match, which of course won't be easy. Most teams like to win every game. Even though that last game you play in the season best sums up the season. Teams shouldn't be trying to sneak up and beat other teams. They should be trying to win each game every time they play. And even take out a full page advertisement stating they plan on playing to win. Because "winning beats losing 8 days per week. Who's willing to put in the work it takes win" ? Someone should use that as locker room bulletin material.
Last edited:
It wasn’t the headline, and it wasn’t in all caps. And it had a question mark (Newsworthy?), as if to ask the question if it’s a big win or not.
I’m not sure how that translates into being bulletin board material for either CN down the road or Heritage. It was a simple congratulatory post from the guy’s brother. No one would have thought anything about it if you hadn’t treated it like a proclamation that Dublin somehow believes they are an Open team or better than they are. The post was no bigger than the victory.
If they play CN again trust me this will be on the pre-game board. The post said Newsworthy with a question mark and I replied with my opinion and answer to the question which I am entitled to. To ME it's not a big win. It could have been left at MY opinion which again I'm entitled to but others chose to respond to me just like you are now and I replied back. I didn't give it any more attention than answering the question. My response was nah not news. If you chose to reply to me then you are the one giving it and me more attention than it needs.
Match ups, timing, and coaching. You left off coaching. Because coaches decide who will be on the floor, who will be in the 8 player rotations, and what game plans (which includes defensive and offensive schemes and systems) and game time adjustments will be used.
Last edited:
I'm caught between the two and I think you can have one without the other but not vice versa. A team can have a solid group of players and still be "successful" with crummy coaching. A good coach can make the world of difference with just an average team. But a bad coach with an average team is a recipe for disaster.
I'm not saying coach is bad, but according to box scores, they've played well since their first heritage loss. That has to count for something. this is turning into a good discussion!
I'm not saying coach is bad, but according to box scores, they've played well since their first heritage loss. That has to count for something. this is turning into a good discussion!
How successful is successful please elaborate. Is successful uconn successful winning championship after championship? Because you can have the best and most talented team in the world but if a coach doesn't get them playing well together or if a coach decides his/ her ego is gonna be the reason why he/she steps in the way to try to take all of the credit for the victory by unnecessarily substituting too much or not enough depending on the game, or using a certain game plan or adjustment, then that can also be a recipe for success or disaster. The players are nothing without the coach and visa versa. The game, like life in general, is about finding balance and harmony, minus fear.
Last edited:
Agreed. Coaches don't score points or play defense. To me a good coach is getting the most out of what they have and making players better over a period of time. I personally don't care if a coach wins or loses as long as the players develop on and off the court.
Agree. I'll take the coach that puts in the time off the court in terms of game prep, player development etc Over the X's and O's genius. At this level to be successful in my opinion what you do outside of the game is way more important than gametime coaching. I've seen both type of coaches be successful though.
True they don't score points or play defense. But they are the third eye. They have the power to stop you ( or their own team) from scoring points or from playing aggressive defense. And encourage their own team to take more or less chances. Or to play hard, or soft and less aggressive. I totally agree a good coach is one who cares enough to help those he/ she is coaching find as much success as possible while helping as many players as possible develop and build confidence both on and off the court. Help them become better people. Both during the time they are coaching the children, and also having an impact long after the children leave that coaching environment. Making better players and better people out of those you are coaching is important. If you help them build confidence, eliminate fear, and understand work ethics, and how to be good teammates IMO you've done your job no doubt.
LBJ6,
Sure to me that is a part of the job to put in an effort to give children the attention and support they all need to build confidence which automatically eliminates the false fear that many encourage them to focus upon in the battle of competition. When in reality the only competition comes from within. Sure helping kids build character and a memorable experience is valuable. I think interviewing the kids before, during, and after, would give the best evaluation of the coaching experience. Or we could just leave it up to older men on forums like this to do the evaluations for the children.
People who "can" do more, don't think like those, who can only do so much.
Last edited:
Similar threads
