The bottom line is the SJS rewards teams with Inflated records and punishes teams with 10 or more losses, it’s just a reality for the SJS so do you play for the playoffs or do you play to make the people on this board happy.
Early End of Summer Predictions...
- Thread starter HoopGuy03
- Start date
It's not just NCS. if you look at a lot of the divisions, it's looks like it's mostly based on wins, followed by SoS. It probably happens in a lot of sections to be honest
CW Golden Eagles & Clay
I would 1st Love to have an Open Division in the SJS Section playoffs. Every year except probably this upcoming year. SMS was 100% the Favorite and have won each Section championship by what at least 20??
On the topic of Big schools vs small school I think we leave out one important factor that is basically proof from our president.. More Money a school has More success that school has!!! 90% of the time.
My enrollment is about 2000 kids. No funds for feeder programs get an average of 1/2 kids that have real basketball experience coming in as a frosh... ANY kid with experience that is good in the area IMMEDIATELY is getting school paid for by SMS. I tried..... well started a feeder this year. and people from our community couldn't even pay normal fees to be able to run a tournament.
Private schools that can offer such things should be in their own league.
So i think its a difference of location and money...
I LOVE the fresno basketball culture but everyone isn't as lucky to have a whole city on the same page.
MY 2 cents.
I would 1st Love to have an Open Division in the SJS Section playoffs. Every year except probably this upcoming year. SMS was 100% the Favorite and have won each Section championship by what at least 20??
On the topic of Big schools vs small school I think we leave out one important factor that is basically proof from our president.. More Money a school has More success that school has!!! 90% of the time.
My enrollment is about 2000 kids. No funds for feeder programs get an average of 1/2 kids that have real basketball experience coming in as a frosh... ANY kid with experience that is good in the area IMMEDIATELY is getting school paid for by SMS. I tried..... well started a feeder this year. and people from our community couldn't even pay normal fees to be able to run a tournament.
Private schools that can offer such things should be in their own league.
So i think its a difference of location and money...
I LOVE the fresno basketball culture but everyone isn't as lucky to have a whole city on the same page.
MY 2 cents.
Money is an issue, no doubt ... but there's a difference between money in a school and money invested in girls' basketball. And, as you mention, the community is as important as the school.
If you have a school/principal and/or community that values girls' basketball, more resources will be available. Of course, success breeds interest, so it's a feedback loop. The better your program, the more support ...
If you have a school/principal and/or community that values girls' basketball, more resources will be available. Of course, success breeds interest, so it's a feedback loop. The better your program, the more support ...
PRESS RELEASE!!!
The NBA responding to complaints from fans that the Warriors have ruined the NBA have
restructured the NBA playoffs...
starting in the 2018/19 NBA season....the playoff format will be as such.
THAT JUST SOUNDS MORE LIKE EVERYONE GETS A MEDAL BULLS---
If CP3 had not gotten hurt the Warriors in my opinion where beat[/QUOTE]
The NBA responding to complaints from fans that the Warriors have ruined the NBA have
restructured the NBA playoffs...
starting in the 2018/19 NBA season....the playoff format will be as such.
THAT JUST SOUNDS MORE LIKE EVERYONE GETS A MEDAL BULLS---
If CP3 had not gotten hurt the Warriors in my opinion where beat[/QUOTE]
Let me first commend who ever is responsible on the excellent job that is being done with the girls basketball program Edison High. It is very difficult in a school system that is geared not to excellence but mediocrity. A program such as exists at SMS would be an impossibility at any Stockton Unified or most other public schools for that matter. This is due to a variety of reasons with funding being only a small part.
Your blanket statement about any player with experience that is good in the area having their school paid for by SM is based on rumor and little fact. The girls basketball players education is paid for by their parent and many times at great personal sacrifice. Such as the single mother who worked two jobs and often couldn't go to see her daughters play.
As far as I know there has been one isolated exception to this and that was by a private individual friend of a family who initially helped a girl who's parents had financial difficulties and could no longer afford the tuition. That same person has helped one needy player each year since. This is a far cry from the accusations of good players getting their school paid for. This is only in respect to the girls basketball program, I don't know about the other programs.
I have been following the program for about 10 years mostly because of the vitriol that was spewed in the Stockton Record by SM detractors It fueled my interest and that got me following the program. I found that the detractors could be categorized into separated factions with different motivational agenda's, only one of which was the resentment that public schools had for the success of the private schools. Ultimately they wanted to use the private schools as a scapegoat for their own failures.
The problem is Stockton Unified and other school districts like it. They have let down both their teachers and students alike. You example of how hard it is to try to create a program that produces excellence is an example of that. Private schools are not the problem but a school system that settles for less.
What you and other seem to forget is that every student who goes to public school has their education paid for. So why should a private school giving a student financial aid ( if and when it does happen ) be such an advantage to drawing a student into a program? Why because it reflects the inferiority of the public school system.
There is no reason for the public schools being inferior to private schools because the majority of private schools spend less per student than the public ones. That pretty much makes a statement about what this is all about. The money the public schools miss out on from those student who attend private schools.
You’re crazy if you don’t think St. Mary’s Miti and all the big time private schools don’t sponsor players. True enough they do not call it an athletic scholarship but it is definitely happening under a different name. You Sir are living in a bubble.
The privates will sponsor/scholarship/financial aid STUDENTS for sure....but that doesn't mean that ALL ATHLETES are on scholarship...that's simply not true. And its also NOT true that financial aid is ONLY given to great athletes. There are plenty of ACADEMIC only students who are given help also. Often times the prospective family just need to ask.
There are many roads a young person can take to reach college. The path may be different but the final destination is the same.
Who's to say that one is better or more just than the other? Why shouldn't a special skill be acknowledged be it a sport, an instrument or an exceptional brain?
I believe...or rather I KNOW that EVERY private school (be it SMS, CLET, MITTY, CN, SHC, SI, MC or any # of other less athletically motivated private schools) has some kind of SCHOLARSHIP ENDOWMENT and how they use it and who they give it to is for those schools to decide.
Public school families don't pay anything to send their kids to high school. How is it any different if a family wants to send their kids to a private and takes advantage of an Endowment, scholarship or financial aid package that is available? That seems (to me) like good parenting to check out your child's options.
There are many roads a young person can take to reach college. The path may be different but the final destination is the same.
Who's to say that one is better or more just than the other? Why shouldn't a special skill be acknowledged be it a sport, an instrument or an exceptional brain?
I believe...or rather I KNOW that EVERY private school (be it SMS, CLET, MITTY, CN, SHC, SI, MC or any # of other less athletically motivated private schools) has some kind of SCHOLARSHIP ENDOWMENT and how they use it and who they give it to is for those schools to decide.
Public school families don't pay anything to send their kids to high school. How is it any different if a family wants to send their kids to a private and takes advantage of an Endowment, scholarship or financial aid package that is available? That seems (to me) like good parenting to check out your child's options.
Good parenting? yes. Unfair advantage over public schools? yes. Should have a Private division and a public division. However each division wants to split them up they should do it. This would solve the competitive equity debacle.
The key point here is that mediocre (or worse) public school systems will drive more students into private schools, for whatever reason.
The consequence athletically is that parents of children who would attend poor public schools are much more likely to consider a private school option -- especially if some or all (very rarely) of the tuition is covered by scholarships -- for their talented student.
And most of the time, the deciding factor is not athletics, but academics and the public school culture -- but if you add an athletic advantage and discounted to tuition to a safer and better education, making the move is a lot easier.
The consequence athletically is that parents of children who would attend poor public schools are much more likely to consider a private school option -- especially if some or all (very rarely) of the tuition is covered by scholarships -- for their talented student.
And most of the time, the deciding factor is not athletics, but academics and the public school culture -- but if you add an athletic advantage and discounted to tuition to a safer and better education, making the move is a lot easier.
SMS, MITTY, SI, SHC, DLS....private schools that are pretty good at just about every sport. And I can understand why the publics get upset. Heck, Mitty had a shot at multiple national championships this last yr. But those are just a couple in Norcal.... Where are the rest?
Just in the NCS....
Salesian great in basketball...are they good in anything else?
St Marys Albany?
CN? Im a CN guy and all I can remember is them winning football and girls basketball this last year(league titles)....Did they win any other sport?
Marin Catholic? football
Justin Siena?
BOD? Football and basketball....how are they in other sports?
Moreau Catholic? boys basketball
Rincon Valley Christian?
St Vincent?
give me time and I can probably find another 10-15 that didn't win crap...
My point being is its not a guarantee that you are any good in sports if u private...
Overall public Folsom is more successful in their sports programs than any above on this list
There are a few DOMINANT private schools FOR SURE....but that's only 5 or 6 out of 600...the rest are all very competitive within their own divisions with the publics.
And competitive equity in the state playoffs are supposed to take care of any inequities...
****Im sure some of the private schools mentioned above have won some titles this last year..my point being they arent winning everything...not even close...
Just in the NCS....
Salesian great in basketball...are they good in anything else?
St Marys Albany?
CN? Im a CN guy and all I can remember is them winning football and girls basketball this last year(league titles)....Did they win any other sport?
Marin Catholic? football
Justin Siena?
BOD? Football and basketball....how are they in other sports?
Moreau Catholic? boys basketball
Rincon Valley Christian?
St Vincent?
give me time and I can probably find another 10-15 that didn't win crap...
My point being is its not a guarantee that you are any good in sports if u private...
Overall public Folsom is more successful in their sports programs than any above on this list
There are a few DOMINANT private schools FOR SURE....but that's only 5 or 6 out of 600...the rest are all very competitive within their own divisions with the publics.
And competitive equity in the state playoffs are supposed to take care of any inequities...
****Im sure some of the private schools mentioned above have won some titles this last year..my point being they arent winning everything...not even close...
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they may not be winning everything, but they're not dead last place every year.
I have no problem with private schools more power to any student that lands a great education be it athletics or whatever. I just hate when people really believe some students aren't at Mater Dei strictly for their superior athletic talent. I wish they would break it up, public school champion and private school champion and then they play for a state champion.
So give me the names or even the numbers of girls basketball players in the last five years that had their school fee's paid for. I would say 5 different players, who shared one private scholarship over five years. One was even a player who got little court time. I am not talking about Mitti or the other private schools only St. Mary of Stockton. That was the school Vikecoach mentioned and was to his blanket statement that I responded too. Am I wrong? If so you can enlighten me via private message if you do not want to do so in this public forum.
I mentioned that it was my interest in all the negative accusation levied at the girls basketball program and their coach that impelled me to investigate and follow the program. This resulted in my calling to task the detractors and accusers. Well it didn't take much to eliminate their arguments and expose their real motivations which were derived not from actual objective assessments, rather from some personal agenda or motivated from some belief in promoting a philosophic social engineering educational agenda that necessitates mediocrity.
I have come to believe that St Marys provides the best opportunity for girls in the Stockton area to challenge and develop themselves for the next level. It is not just coaching but the program itself. As I stated before, the system would never encourage or even allow any public school to run such a program. As Clay stated the school needs to support any program for it to be successful. I would love if there were public school that would also fill that need. But the school systems are more about CYA and avoiding issues with parents who want programs geared to mediocrity.
Being in a program that is geared for the next level is not for everyone. The school system run magnet programs that provide accelerated programs in certain areas and fields. Why don't they do that in sports. The potential for girls to have a paying career in basketball is as viable as one in theater or music, yet the system still does not see it as such. Mostly because the educational systems are run by academics who resented athletics when they were going to high school. The were clueless and still do not recognize the value of team sports in respect to the social development.
The foundations for almost every career is laid early on. Why should those that might have the talent to excel in a sport be denied the opportunity to lay that foundation.
Ideally those that are not as engaged should have the opportunity to compete against others on their level, but not at the expense of restricting those that want to put in the work and challenge themselves to excel. Why create equality via mediocrity.
By the way I believe parents that send their children to private schools should get vouchers. If they did you would soon see a drastic improvement in the public education.
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"I mentioned that it was my interest in all the negative accusation levied at the girls basketball program and their coach that impelled me to investigate and follow the program. This resulted in my calling to task the detractors and accusers. Well it didn't take much to eliminate their arguments and expose their real motivations which were derived not from actual objective assessments, rather from some personal agenda or motivated from some belief in promoting a philosophic social engineering educational agenda that necessitates mediocrity."
Translation from all of that: I love to hear myself talk #captainsaveaschool #mycapeisinthecleaners #getoveryourself
Translation from all of that: I love to hear myself talk #captainsaveaschool #mycapeisinthecleaners #getoveryourself
Part of the recipe for success is administrative support -- but then a coach needs to take advantage of that support and put in the time and effort to build a program.
So northbay is absolutely correct that private school/magnet school/charter school is no guarantee of success, but given administrative support, it is a much stronger foundation to build on than most public schools. And willtalk is correct that not many kids get money, but the difference between the horde of very good teams and the teams playing for NorCal and state titles is usually one or two elite players. If those players find the path smoothed in one way or another, then that could be the difference.
As for public/private playoffs, are there divisions in both? And then do the division titlists play off? Or is there an Open in each, and only the two Opens play? As always, the devil is in the details.
So northbay is absolutely correct that private school/magnet school/charter school is no guarantee of success, but given administrative support, it is a much stronger foundation to build on than most public schools. And willtalk is correct that not many kids get money, but the difference between the horde of very good teams and the teams playing for NorCal and state titles is usually one or two elite players. If those players find the path smoothed in one way or another, then that could be the difference.
As for public/private playoffs, are there divisions in both? And then do the division titlists play off? Or is there an Open in each, and only the two Opens play? As always, the devil is in the details.
Chat with the public school folks in the Central Coast Section. The WCAL is the elephant in the powder room. It dominates most sports in both boys and girls competition. It is an athletic behemoth that dwarfs the publics. Not healthy at all.
The WCAL is probably the best sports conference in the state.
And its in the running for the best in the country.
The CCS has 'special" playoff formats set up in the sections to adjust the teams thus assuring that the WCAL doesn't just crush everyone. An OPEN section in basketball that allows the other "non traditional power" teams to win the D1/D2/D3/D4/D5 section titles and a multiple section playoff (Open1/2/3 etc..) formats in football. Do they do the same in other sports as well?
So it seems to me that the CCS recognizes the elephant and tries to even out the playing field for the lesser athletic schools.
And then of course comp equity takes over in the Norcals....so for the lesser athletic schools most of the time they don't even have to worry about the WCAL.
The only problem is, this also allows lower level WCAL teams (like a bottom 3/ last place finisher) who don't get pulled into open to win a section title by clearing out the best competition in their division. I could be wrong but I believe a winless (in WCAL play) Presentation team won CCS d2 a few years back, and it wasn't even that close. This year Valley Christian gets to hang a banner and move onto NorCals after a year of underachieving and Aragon had to go home after one of its best seasons ever... That's where the CCS system in flawed a bit in my mind
This is a message board, NOT a dissertation! You don't have to use all these big words so you can try and sound smart.
Since you keep bringing my name back up im guessing you want a response.
Im not saying SMS is wrong for doing what they are doing. and like (AZANNA) if you don't think, which im sure you know, kids are getting tuition paid for to go to school their you should be ashamed of yourself.
But my point was the best kids in the city will end up at SMS 90% of the time.
As far as better opportunity SMS funds trips to DC/AZ yearly which is a costly trip. Let me guess SMS fundraises those funds or has each parent pay for them lol.
And as far as getting girls life in the right path for college SMS 3 Scholarships. Edison 3 scholarships last year. ( One girl came from SMS) after her freshman year because she wasn't good enough and they weren't going to pay for her school anymore so she couldn't afford it. So I can say Edison has done well, sending 5 kids to D1/D2 colleges on full scholarships in the last two years. .
This is NOT to bash SMS, I like the Coach and LOVE the AD. But facts are facts. SMS will recruit and take the best kids from surrounding areas public schools.
Since you keep bringing my name back up im guessing you want a response.
Im not saying SMS is wrong for doing what they are doing. and like (AZANNA) if you don't think, which im sure you know, kids are getting tuition paid for to go to school their you should be ashamed of yourself.
But my point was the best kids in the city will end up at SMS 90% of the time.
As far as better opportunity SMS funds trips to DC/AZ yearly which is a costly trip. Let me guess SMS fundraises those funds or has each parent pay for them lol.
And as far as getting girls life in the right path for college SMS 3 Scholarships. Edison 3 scholarships last year. ( One girl came from SMS) after her freshman year because she wasn't good enough and they weren't going to pay for her school anymore so she couldn't afford it. So I can say Edison has done well, sending 5 kids to D1/D2 colleges on full scholarships in the last two years. .
This is NOT to bash SMS, I like the Coach and LOVE the AD. But facts are facts. SMS will recruit and take the best kids from surrounding areas public schools.
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Problem with the open division in CCS is that even the first round losers get automatic entrance into Norcals and there are some instances where runner-ups haven't had the chance to advance. Advantage WCAL/Private schools in CCS.
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