Grant Whitney forfeit?

[Leopold10]

NO.....NO it is NOT ok to say Grant is a disgrace.....that’s BS.I have very good friends at the corral in Oakdale as it appears to me Leopold10 is from(if wrong I apologize) and I as well have very good friends at Grant.To say they are a disgrace simply infuriates me....that is not true imho,i’ve been to DPH and took our kids all of them in support of the pacers for same exact reasons I’m here now infuriated by that remark.We need to ALL agree that we can resolve this ridiculous hostility that’s taking place right here in these blogs because of what is happening on the playing field!Enough already!Rather than call a team or teams a disgrace let’s try supporting each other regardless from what side of the river we are all from......Enough already!These are kids young kids in all div’s that need OUR support and guidance and to make them realize this extra curricular brawling,trash talking crap is not right.I would rather go 0-10 and know our kids learned from those losses and will work harder in the weightrooms in the classrooms and then go out and show as well as give the RESPECT the winning team deserves for their success and same RESPECT should be given by the winners to the losing team.....PERIOD,We do not do any of us here or our kids and programs any good in calling anyone a disgrace!We are all better than this.....Enough already!

champion I have been watching high school football in the Bay area and Sac area since the 80's never ONCE have I seem a team get in 4 altercations where benches came on the field and there was a fight. Grant has had 4 this year and they still have some games left. There is obvious issues brewing there this year and this year they are a disgrace unless they make some leadership changes. 4 out of 10 games a Grant player was ejected that is 40% of their games... your telling me that is ok?

 

[championcif75]

champion I have been watching high school football in the Bay area and Sac area since the 80's never ONCE have I seem a team get in 4 altercations where benches came on the field and there was a fight. Grant has had 4 this year and they still have some games left. There is obvious issues brewing there this year and this year they are a disgrace unless they make some leadership changes. 4 out of 10 games a Grant player was ejected that is 40% of their games... your telling me that is ok?

No the altercation part is NOT ok,calling an entire program “a disgrace”is what upsets me.Not all players of Grants program were involved in the altercation(s),I have said that the Grant admin needs to circle the wagons and decide what is best to get the Pacers and it’s program and admin along with community on same page.DPH is a tight community,residents know what is going on at the school...trust me they do.They need to make some very tough decisions because respect and loyalty play a big part as there are still some long time hanger on’s that maybe need to ride off into the sunset and join us fans/supporters up in the stands.Some much needed new leadership and idea’s as well as philosophy with these tremendous athletes.Grant has yr in and yr out great athletes if they could some how corral(no pun intended wink)that athleticism...omg the Pacers would be off the chart,not to say they couldn’t be beat but you better have some pop in which to do it.I hear you loud and clear,I get what you are saying....I really do,we all need to rise up beyond the OBVIOUS fray and try our best to assist and support a school that right now desperately needs it!By stating that a program is a disgrace imho doesn’t help the matter it compounds it even more.....but I hear ya(wink).Go Placer.....Go Stangs.

 

[BigMann08]

Dont be too quick to stack the blame on the Pacers. The Pacers have had many battles with Del Oro, Oak Ridge, and Folsom etc. without incident. They've even had games with rival neighborhoods like Sac High, Burbank, and Valley without incident...

Given the circumstances, Grant has one of the most mild mannered sidelines in the Section.

Del Oro and Whitney both have new coaching staffs. The Del Oro fight stemmed from some very inappropriate language (Del Oro kid) used on the field toward a Grant player. The kid from Del Oro should have been kicked off the team for using such language. The officials and coaching staff did nothing about the language the kid was using...

@ Whitney. The Whitney assistant coach was out of line for attacking the kid from Grant. It seems like Whitney came into the game to antagonize and instigate a fight. Their mission was accomplished.

Whitney had a messed up season and they were trying to mess up Grant's season. This was clearly on display.

There was an article in SacBee talking about all of the fighting that is going on at the HS football games. It's not a Grant problem. It's a section problem.

 

[tejas22]

BigMann08, could not disagree with you more about the Del Oro / Grant fight. The fight happened after a Del Oro interception and was started by #55 from Grant. No punches were thrown by Del Oro, yet #11 for Grant not only threw #6 for Del Oro to the ground but also punched him 3 times. The officials did not address it nor did the Grant coaching staff. I think Grant is a very talented team but they have had multiple incidences this year and none of the other teams have had and other incidences against any of their other opponents. You can draw from it what you wish.

 

[Deltadodger]

Change will come to grants coaching staff in due time. AL is a powerful man in our community I don’t think we will ever fire him. It would be nice to hire Aaron Garcia but like I said AL has got in great shape and doesn’t look like he’s gonna be done anytime soon especially after seeing how dominant our youth team is he might hold out til they get to varsity

 

[BayAreaBorn]

@championcif75

I haven't posted in years, but do check in from time-to-time. The only reason I'm posting now is to commend you for keeping it real and not jumping to a lot of conclusions. BTW ... I was at the Central (varsity) game in Fresno. NO players on either side ejected. NO players ejected at the CC varsity game either. Easy to confirm by calling the coaches. Yes, players involved in fights at both Del Oro and Whitney games. Obviously, that's not OK and I'm sure there will be consequences as Grant prepares for the first game of the playoffs. Champ, I was at the Grant game years ago when you and your players were there. I remember thinking it should happen more often between different programs in the area. What a great way to build relationships and breakdown stereotypes. Enjoy the playoffs!

 

[Leopold10]

@BigMann08 if you actually watch the Whitney fight incident . No Whitney coach was blatantly attacking grant kids. A Whitney coach saw his other coach get “ bodyslammed “ so he was pushing kids back off the downed coach. As this was happening a grant kids helmet came off. The coach was able to pull the coach out of the scrum after pushing kids back. Watch the clip and get your facts right before you spread lies about what happened. I hope Whitney sends the whole film to the CIF I saw it while streaming the game online.

 

[FootballJunkie101]

@championcif75

I haven't posted in years, but do check in from time-to-time. The only reason I'm posting now is to commend you for keeping it real and not jumping to a lot of conclusions. BTW ... I was at the Central (varsity) game in Fresno. NO players on either side ejected. NO players ejected at the CC varsity game either. Easy to confirm by calling the coaches. Yes, players involved in fights at both Del Oro and Whitney games. Obviously, that's not OK and I'm sure there will be consequences as Grant prepares for the first game of the playoffs. Champ, I was at the Grant game years ago when you and your players were there. I remember thinking it should happen more often between different programs in the area. What a great way to build relationships and breakdown stereotypes. Enjoy the playoffs!

Great post my man. I just got off the phone with a friend of mine that coaches in Fresno that went to the Central game. He said both teams were woofing at each other throughout the game but that's about it. No police called or weapons drawn. He basically said that's a part of the game where we're from and I agreed. So if Grant coaches didn't hit a kid or incite a fight the program shouldn't be under any post season sanctions moving forward. Wishing the Pacers a good run in the playoffs. The SJS is better when Grant is at the top of their game.

 

[FootballJunkie101]

@BigMann08 if you actually watch the Whitney fight incident . No Whitney coach was blatantly attacking grant kids. A Whitney coach saw his other coach get “ bodyslammed “ so he was pushing kids back off the downed coach. As this was happening a grant kids helmet came off. The coach was able to pull the coach out of the scrum after pushing kids back. Watch the clip and get your facts right before you spread lies about what happened. I hope Whitney sends the whole film to the CIF I saw it while streaming the game online.

Ok, you're making a lot of noise about this unfortunate incident between Whitney and Grant. Poster WWHS is a die hard Whitney supporter and he hasn't chimed in so I guess it isn't as bad as some make it out to be. Seems to me if it was as serious as you make he would have spoke on it. But he hasn't as of yet. What do you want to happen?

 

[RidgeRider]

Ok, you're making a lot of noise about this unfortunate incident between Whitney and Grant. Poster WWHS is a die hard Whitney supporter and he hasn't chimed in so I guess it isn't as bad as some make it out to be. Seems to me if it was as serious as you make he would have spoke on it. But he hasn't as of yet. What do you want to happen?

WWHS posted that he heard the JV game was called too, but nothing posted on the varsity yet.

 

[RidgeRider]

Let's hope all the focus on it, even though it got folks from all over riled up, puts an end to it and has the coaches from all teams making sure kids and assistant coaches know, it's not ok, it's not acceptable, not within the spirit of the game, and not good sportsmanship. Sometimes it takes something like this to get some focus back on it.

Looking forward to some playoffs!

 

[BigMann08]

@Tejas

Tensions had been brewing because there were several racial slurs used by Del Oros players. It was only a matter of time...

 

[BigMann08]

@Leopold10

The coach was in the wrong. You never grab or go after another teams players. You especially dont rip a helmet off of someone's head. That's unacceptable.

If one of those big 6'7 360 pound Grant coaches had done that to a Whitney player, he would have been arrested or charges would have been filed.

The coaches should not have rushed the field the way that they did. Rushing on the field like that caused more confusion.

 

[BayAreaBorn]

@BigMann08 if you actually watch the Whitney fight incident . No Whitney coach was blatantly attacking grant kids. A Whitney coach saw his other coach get “ bodyslammed “ so he was pushing kids back off the downed coach. As this was happening a grant kids helmet came off. The coach was able to pull the coach out of the scrum after pushing kids back. Watch the clip and get your facts right before you spread lies about what happened. I hope Whitney sends the whole film to the CIF I saw it while streaming the game online.

 

[BayAreaBorn]

CIF official report on what happened is supposed to be sent to both school districts on Monday. I hope you get an opportunity to read it.

 

[ThunderRam]

The drastically differing points-of-views and dissension expressed in this thread support what I said before. The vast majority doesn't really seem to know all the circumstances or all the facts. And the small minority that might know aren't seeing eye-to-eye. Yet several among the vast majority are drawing conclusions and making concrete statements based upon hearsay and/or their preexisting feelings toward a certain program or coaching staff.

Since the people doing that have no problem stating their half baked opinions in a bold and matter-of-fact manner, they shouldn't mind if responses are given in-kind. Seems fair.

 

[bella123]

They all sound guilty to me based off the 4th party hearsay I’ve read about .

 

[ThunderRam]

They all sound guilty to me based off the 4th party hearsay I’ve read about .

 

[s2h17]

any word yet?

 

[awood1]

As reported in the SacBee article yesterday:

"No. 10 Elk Grove (5-5) at No. 7 Vacaville (6-4) is an intriguing opener. The wild card in the field is No. 6 Grant. The storied Pacers (5-5) will be down 10 players, including eight starters, after the section office exhaustively went over game film that revealed a nasty brawl between Grant and Whitney and all manner of chaos.


Ten Pacers left the bench to help calm the melee, and CIF rules stipulate anyone leaving the bench - even with good intention - has to sit the following game. Grant opens at home against No. 11 Downey of Modesto (6-4)."

 

[FootballJunkie101]

As reported in the SacBee article yesterday:

"No. 10 Elk Grove (5-5) at No. 7 Vacaville (6-4) is an intriguing opener. The wild card in the field is No. 6 Grant. The storied Pacers (5-5) will be down 10 players, including eight starters, after the section office exhaustively went over game film that revealed a nasty brawl between Grant and Whitney and all manner of chaos.


Ten Pacers left the bench to help calm the melee, and CIF rules stipulate anyone leaving the bench - even with good intention - has to sit the following game. Grant opens at home against No. 11 Downey of Modesto (6-4)."

Wow eight starters won't play in a postseason game. Since this is the playoffs you would believe the committee would make a more fair judgement than that. I can see 10 players sitting out a half but not the whole game. Especially since it's being reported that they left the bench to HELP calm matters down. This is a crazy!!!!

 

[observer22]

The storied Pacers (5-5) will be down 10 players, including eight starters, after the section office exhaustively went over game film that revealed a nasty brawl between Grant and Whitney and all manner of chaos."

“All manner of chaos”. Not just some chaotic moments, but all manner. No manner of chaos was spared. Complete chaos ensued.

 

[Kickingtee18]

anyone leaving the bench - even with good intention - has to sit the following game.

Any idea how many returning Whitney players need to sit first game next year?

 

[WWHS44]

Just watched the video.. Plenty of blame to go around. WHS coach is trying to break up fighting and gets tied up with #55 and grabs the face mask and off comes the helmet....WHS is hesitant to rush the field and staff lines up to keep players on the sideline....Just ugly...the blame goes both ways.....You ask me HC are responsible for their teams and resulting actions.....team is out of line, HC gets suspended.....that will put an end to it quickly...

 

[feedback1]

.team is out of line, HC gets suspended.....that will put an end to it quickly...

That actually already is in the rulebook. Two unsportsman-like calls on a the sideline and the HC is ejected.

 

[WWHS44]

CIF reviewed the film and did not come to that conclusion? I know that is true of a player and in suit could see that for a coach. That said where were to two side line infractions?

 

[ivey1919]

Wow eight starters won't play in a postseason game. Since this is the playoffs you would believe the committee would make a more fair judgement than that. I can see 10 players sitting out a half but not the whole game. Especially since it's being reported that they left the bench to HELP calm matters down. This is a crazy!!!!

I mean a rule is a rule. There should be no exceptions made just because it is a playoff game. What message do you end up sending to the players and coaches if you decide you are going to change the rules because it is a playoff game.

 

[feedback1]

CIF reviewed the film and did not come to that conclusion? I know that is true of a player and in suit could see that for a coach. That said where were to two side line infractions?

I didn't see what happened at this game. But the SFL has jurisdiction as this was a league contest. There is a rule that APPEALS from the last game of the year go to the section (the state CIF has no role). The system is setup so that the officials handle discipline resulting from play. The league or section can review the video for appeals or issues that arise when the officials are not present.

But the activist role - where the CIF just views game video on their own to find discipline infractions is not a thing. The ejection rule and sitting the following game applies to players and coaches alike.

 

[FootballJunkie101]

I mean a rule is a rule. There should be no exceptions made just because it is a playoff game. What message do you end up sending to the players and coaches if you decide you are going to change the rules because it is a playoff game.

I mean I'd rather be a FAIR thinking adult in this case. If the kids were actually calming things down that should cause an exception to the rule. After being involved in this game for over 45 years I'm pro kids not pro adult committee members or coaches. Where I'm at now it's all about the kids not the adults. Now if this was on the professional level that's a different story. It's the kids that beat their heads against each other 5 or 6 days a week while the adult committee members create rules that satisfies their interest not the kids. Not saying you're out of line for going along with the committee's decision. That said, my experiences and lengthy involvement in this game has me seeing things differently than most. "Let the kids play and allow the adults to watch". That's been my M.O. for over 3 decades now.

 

[ivey1919]

I get what your saying.

I just feel differently. You have rules, and if they are not followed then there are consequences. You can't just start making exceptions because its the playoffs or at any other time. Why even have rules if you are going to make an exception to it?

Now if you want to argue that the rule should be changed to consider circumstances then I can get behind that. As of right now though the rule is leave the bench and you sit out. There are no exceptions.

I played high school sports and I understood that. Were there times that I wanted to run out onto the field, yeah. But I didn't because I knew the rule.

Listen Grant has had several altercations on the field this year. So I am pretty sure Coach Alberghini has talked to his team about the rules. Still the players did what they did, and now they are going to suffer the consequences.

Maybe it isn't fair, but life isn't fair. You're sending the wrong message to these kids if you let them play.

 

[SearsPoints]

Good video of incident here, as well as confirmation that 12 players will not play Friday.
https://www.kcra.com/article/12-grant-hs-players-benched-after-football-brawl/24460915

 

[WWHS44]

I didn't see what happened at this game. But the SFL has jurisdiction as this was a league contest. There is a rule that APPEALS from the last game of the year go to the section (the state CIF has no role). The system is setup so that the officials handle discipline resulting from play. The league or section can review the video for appeals or issues that arise when the officials are not present.

But the activist role - where the CIF just views game video on their own to find discipline infractions is not a thing. The ejection rule and sitting the following game applies to players and coaches alike.

OK however you wish to word it but here is what is reported in the Sac Bee ..."Ten Pacers left the bench to help calm the melee, and CIF rules stipulate anyone leaving the bench - even with good intention - has to sit the following game".

Now for KCRA 3 version.....The CIF reviewed video footage and found athletes from both schools were involved. Friday marked Whitney High’s last football game for the season; Commissioner Garrison said those players won’t be punished. However, Grant is advancing to the playoffs; the CIF is benching 12 players from the first game because of the fight.

I am not sure where your information comes from but here is the Commissioner making a statement. I would like to believe he knows the rules a little better,

 

[feedback1]

OK however you wish to word it but here is what is reported in the Sac Bee ..."Ten Pacers left the bench to help calm the melee, and CIF rules stipulate anyone leaving the bench - even with good intention - has to sit the following game".

Now for KCRA 3 version.....The CIF reviewed video footage and found athletes from both schools were involved. Friday marked Whitney High’s last football game for the season; Commissioner Garrison said those players won’t be punished. However, Grant is advancing to the playoffs; the CIF is benching 12 players from the first game because of the fight.

I am not sure where your information comes from but here is the Commissioner making a statement. I would like to believe he knows the rules a little better,

Nothing here contradicts what I stated. You are just not using the terms with clarity. The CIF is the state organization. The sections are members of the state organization. The SJS (where Commissioner Garrison is employed) has jurisdiction over discipline issues from the final game of the season. Not the CIF-state organization. I am not disputing any of what was posted, just trying to make it clear where you used terms inter-changeably and created possible confusion.

 

[FootballJunkie101]

Maybe it isn't fair, but life isn't fair. You're sending the wrong message to these kids if you let them play.

Your point is well taken but we're obviously in two different places in our lives. Regardless of a rule, I will never believe being "pro kids" as well as being "fair" is sending the wrong message. Especially if the kids were trying to HELP defuse the situation as it's been documented here. Just my take and by no means am I suggesting others are wrong for their beliefs.

We all know rules can be changed or waved just as leaders in this country grotesquely change or wave their beliefs for power and money. Something that I feel is far worse than the rule these kids may have broken. However, if the Grant kids ran unto the field to partake into the mayhem that's a whole different story. In that case, I'd totally agree with you that the rule should be ENFORCED to the fullest. Since they didn't partake into the mayhem I believe they should be benched for a half. That's what I consider fair in regards to this unfortunate situation.

 

[rocknrolus 12]

According to the Modesto Bee 10 players are not playing against Downey. 8 are starters. Where is the team first attitude? By their behavior they have hurt the other players on their own team. But they are kids they don't think. Hopefully this will make an impact on their thinking in the future?

 

[FootballJunkie101]

Good video of incident here, as well as confirmation that 12 players will not play Friday.
https://www.kcra.com/article/12-grant-hs-players-benched-after-football-brawl/24460915

After reviewing the film this is an easy call. The WHS coach was 100% out of line and should be temporarily suspended until further review of his aggressive actions & re-actions. Rule #1 as a coach, you NEVER under any circumstances touch or grab the opposing team players in this situation. Had he pulled his players to the sideline the wrestling would have ended on its own.

His action is the main reason why the other Whitney coach was body slammed. This coach intensified the situation not help to defuse it. Basically, he was the problem not the solution. This was a good cop, bad cop situation and the Whitney coach was uncontrollably "trigger happy" not the Grant coaches.

Yes, there would have been suspension but only 4 or 5 Grant players not half the team. Did anyone see a Grant coach grab or interact aggressively with a Whitney player, no! The first player to throw punches was the Whitney player that was being pushed to the ground on the extra point. If you check out both teams #72 you'll notice Grant #72 restraining his own teammates and Whitney's #72 aggressively pulling, shoving and tossing a Grant player toward their sideline.

 

[WWHS44]

Nothing here contradicts what I stated. You are just not using the terms with clarity. The CIF is the state organization. The sections are members of the state organization. The SJS (where Commissioner Garrison is employed) has jurisdiction over discipline issues from the final game of the season. Not the CIF-state organization. I am not disputing any of what was posted, just trying to make it clear where you used terms inter-changeably and created possible confusion.

I knew we could agree on something feed!
My self doesn't make the comment......Mike Garrison and KCRA make the claim the CIF enforced the rule.....SMH...I knew it could happen....all good

 

[ThunderRam]

The coach was in the wrong. You never grab or go after another teams players. You especially dont rip a helmet off of someone's head. That's unacceptable.

I agree with you, but try telling that to Whitney's HC who defended the move:

Coach Zac McNally with Whitney High School said he supports his assistant coach’s decision of running onto the field. He said after reviewing the footage, he believes the assistant coach was trying to protect the players.

https://www.kcra.com/article/triplets-of-copenhagen-postpartum/24476949

 

[ThunderRam]

After reading all of the fallout and decisions, here are a few things that bother me.

One, if the Pacers players are suspended for a playoff game (or more) then any Whitney players involved that will return to the program should be suspended for a game (or more) next season. Otherwise, teams with nothing to play for at the end of a season will continue to have no fear of instigating or partaking in incidents such as these. You can't really dissuade the Seniors who are leaving, but you can hold the underclassmen and coaches accountable. It's reckless and hypocritical not to.

Two, while it has nothing to do with the CIF -- just my own gripe, it does piss me off to see these players suspended for a playoff game that could be their last game ever while seeing a pro player such as Yuli Gurriel of the Houston Astros get away with making racial comments towards one of their opponents players during the 2017 World Series. Instead of getting suspended for a game during the WS, he instead got 5 games to start the next season. Talk about missing the point entirely. As @ivey1919 said, what's the point of having rules and etiquette if you don't enforce the proper consequences to dissuade the behavior? I realize that's an MLB problem, but it was one of the first things that popped into my head when I saw this decision. But I digress....

In the relevant case of Grant-Whitney, I agree with the suspensions so long as the Whitney underclassmen miss a game next season. Otherwise the CIF/SJS is missing the mark and applying the punishments unilaterally (unless all Whitney participants were Seniors, which I doubt). And I don't like that.

 

[FootballJunkie101]

After reading all of the fallout and decisions, here are a few things that bother me.

One, if the Pacers players are suspended for a playoff game (or more) then any Whitney players involved that will return to the program should be suspended for a game (or more) next season. Otherwise, teams with nothing to play for at the end of a season will continue to have no fear of instigating or partaking in incidents such as these. You can't really dissuade the Seniors who are leaving, but you can hold the underclassmen and coaches accountable. It's reckless and hypocritical not to.

Two, while it has nothing to do with the CIF -- just my own gripe, it does piss me off to see these players suspended for a playoff game that could be their last game ever while seeing a pro player such as Yuli Gurriel of the Houston Astros get away with making racial comments towards one of their opponents players during the 2017 World Series. Instead of getting suspended for a game during the WS, he instead got 5 games to start the next season. Talk about missing the point entirely. As @ivey1919 said, what's the point of having rules and etiquette if you don't enforce the proper consequences to dissuade the behavior? I realize that's an MLB problem, but it was one of the first things that popped into my head when I saw this decision. But I digress....

In the relevant case of Grant-Whitney, I agree with the suspensions so long as the Whitney underclassmen miss a game next season. Otherwise the CIF/SJS is missing the mark and applying the punishments unilaterally (unless all Whitney participants were Seniors, which I doubt). And I don't like that.

This sounds about right to me. Just saying....