NCS open-division 3 seedings

[ankleassassin]

Yeah exactly, the old system was better. This year had we truly gone by the rankings they would have been a top 3 seed in D1 and Cardinal Newman would have been a top 5 seed. Instead because of the silly 2 division up limit they were the 1 and 2 seeds in D2 and rolled to the championship game to face each other winning the games leading up to it by an average of 23 points. That's not competitive equity its stacking the deck for D4 and D5 private schools that don't make the open division to win NCS titles

What is the rule. Since lost D1 what happens

 

[noknight]

My biggest issue with the NCS system is that moreau (and other teams like them) is capped at being in D2 but for state they are in D1

I think you're missing the forest for the trees here. Without those NCS rules, one of Moreau, Redwood, Dougherty Valley or Clayton Valley Charter wouldn't have made Norcals because only the top 3 seeds from each division qualify. Do you want a worse team to advance instead?

I DO think NCS needs to rethink how they rank teams and have it much more based on how they're going to rank them at the state level. Having Open teams ranked below Division 1 teams is a bad look, and I blame NCS for determining the Open teams based on different criteria than were going to be used for Norcals.

 

[510sportsfan]

I think you're missing the forest for the trees here. Without those NCS rules, one of Moreau, Redwood, Dougherty Valley or Clayton Valley Charter wouldn't have made Norcals because only the top 3 seeds from each division qualify. Do you want a worse team to advance instead?

I DO think NCS needs to rethink how they rank teams and have it much more based on how they're going to rank them at the state level. Having Open teams ranked below Division 1 teams is a bad look, and I blame NCS for determining the Open teams based on different criteria than were going to be used for Norcals.

Yeah that also is a bad rule. If we are going to put all the good teams in Open and D1 then more teams should make NorCals from those divisions than in the lower divisions. You are 100 percent right that there is a lot wrong with the current system. I definitely don't want worse teams advancing and want the NCS playoffs to be competitive and for NCS teams to be competitive in NorCals

 

[Smallveteran]

My biggest issue with the NCS system is that moreau (and other teams like them) is capped at being in D2 but for state 50% of the spots went to the top 12 teams

Yeah that also is a bad rule. If we are going to put all the good teams in Open and D1 then more teams should make NorCals from those divisions than in the lower divisions. You are 100 percent right that there is a lot wrong with the current system. I definitely don't want worse teams advancing and want the NCS playoffs to be competitive and for NCS teams to be competitive in NorCals

In a way did the system not work out to near perfection!?! This Does not mean it is not flawed. It did do what it was supppse to do. The 12 highest ranked teams all made regionals . Whether the conduit was through div 3, 2 , div 1 or open.

With that in mind tweaks need to be made to the system. We are not far off. Do not blow it all up!

Give the two extra regional spots to div 1. Pull two of the four that d 6 is given. It is not equitable to allow d6 so many spots. Allow anyone to play div 1. Top 5 in Div 1 make it to regionals. 31% of the teams in Div 1 make regionals vs 19% from d 2 through d 6. Competitive equity needs to be kept in mind. If it did not we would only give 1 spot to each division d-3 to d-6 . It does though !

 

[Smallveteran]

In a way did the system not work out to near perfection!?! This Does not mean it is not flawed. It did do what it was supppse to do. The 12 highest ranked teams all made regionals . Whether the conduit was through div 3, 2 , div 1 or open.

With that in mind tweaks need to be made to the system. We are not far off. Do not blow it all up!

Give the two extra regional spots to div 1. Pull two of the four that d 6 is given. It is not equitable to allow d6 so many spots. Allow anyone to play div 1. Top 5 in Div 1 make it to regionals. 31% of the teams in Div 1 make regionals vs 19% from d 2 through d 6. Competitive equity needs to be kept in mind. If it did not we would only give 1 spot to each division d-3 to d-6 . It does though !

One of the challenges with the concept above is the following - Branson, San Domenico , Newman , Moreau would of all made it to div 1 . If all played out based on seeding merits. Two of the teams listed above would not of made it . Now we have a new problem …

 

[norcalmbbfan]

I like the CCS system. All 8 Open teams advance to NorCal’s. Then all 10 teams that make the regional final in D1-5 also make NorCal’s. Then the final 3 spots are awarded to the best 3 remaining teams that lost in the regional semifinals. It’s not perfect, and picking the final 3 teams is subjective, but they usually get it right.

 

[norcalmbbfan]

One of the challenges with the concept above is the following - Branson, San Domenico , Newman , Moreau would have all made it to div 1 . If all played out based on seeding merits. Two of the teams listed above would not of made it . Now we have a new problem …

The CCS system would allow all 4 of the D1 teams in your scenario to make NorCal’s. Unless they lost before the semifinals, in which case I don’t think they deserve to make it

 

[Smallveteran]

One of the challenges with the concept above is the following - Branson, San Domenico , Newman , Moreau would of all made it to div 1 . If all played out based on seeding merits. Two of the teams listed above would not of made it . Now we have a new problem …

The next step in the process of improving the system is the following. Get rid of the 3rd place games (4 total spots we already took away d 6 in previous post) and give those spots to div 1 . The new total regional spots allocated to div 1 is nine.

You win your 1st round game your in. You lose your out. Seems like a good reward for pushing to get into the div 1 bracket . The Glory and you have to believe you can at least win one !!! We would have 1 spot left over.

The justification/battle would need to be on the competitive equity side .

 

[norcalmbbfan]

One other change I’d like to see the NCS make is allowing a team to move up as high a division as deemed worthy. But keep the 2 division limit for moving teams down.

 

[Smallveteran]

The CCS system would allow all 4 of the D1 teams in your scenario to make NorCal’s. Unless they lost before the semifinals, in which case I don’t think they deserve to make it

I don’t mind ccs setup on surface. We would need to run scenarios based on previous years. To see how this truly stacks up vs other options. At the end of day we want as many good teams to make it . While keeping in mind their are schools that will never provide an opportunity to compete at high levels. Competitive equity !

 

[Smallveteran]

One other change I’d like to see the NCS make is allowing a team to move up as high a division as deemed worthy. But keep the 2 division limit for moving teams down.

How does ccs handle this ? Is it all pop based outside of open ?

 

[norcalmbbfan]

How does ccs handle this ? Is it all pop based outside of open ?

Yes. Any team can make open. Then it reverts to enrollment for D1-D5 for regionals. NorCal’s is competitive equity.

 

[ArmchairGOAT]

Yes. Any team can make open. Then it reverts to enrollment for D1-D5 for regionals. NorCal’s is competitive equity.

Here’s a brief summary of the CCS Committee Selection process: (courtesy of Ethan Kassel)

• The Open Division will have exactly eight teams, split into two groups for pool play. The pool winners advance to the championship game.
• Divisions I through V (by enrollment) can have a maximum of 16 teams. The brackets give double byes to the top four teams and single byes to the fifth through eighth seeds.
• Computer rankings are NOT on the list of criteria used by the committee, though they can provide a somewhat accurate base.
• The committee considers head-to-head results, results against common opponents, significant wins and strength of schedule. For the Open Division, strength of league is considered, rather than strength of schedule, and playoff history is also taken into consideration.
• Generally speaking, head-to-head results and league standings are the most important determining factors.
• Each league can only have one team on the board at a time, and those usually go in order of league standings. In turn, a team that has a better overall resume that finished behind a team with an inferior overall resume may be stuck waiting for the team that finished ahead of them to get picked.
• The top 12 teams are seeded in Divisions I-V. The remaining four teams are unseeded and matched up with seeds 9 through 12 with proximity and avoiding league matchups considered.
• High seeds host all games other than championships, which are to be played at neutral sites.

 

[Smallveteran]

Here’s a brief summary of the CCS Committee Selection process: (courtesy of Ethan Kassel)

• The Open Division will have exactly eight teams, split into two groups for pool play. The pool winners advance to the championship game.
• Divisions I through V (by enrollment) can have a maximum of 16 teams. The brackets give double byes to the top four teams and single byes to the fifth through eighth seeds.
• Computer rankings are NOT on the list of criteria used by the committee, though they can provide a somewhat accurate base.
• The committee considers head-to-head results, results against common opponents, significant wins and strength of schedule. For the Open Division, strength of league is considered, rather than strength of schedule, and playoff history is also taken into consideration.
• Generally speaking, head-to-head results and league standings are the most important determining factors.
• Each league can only have one team on the board at a time, and those usually go in order of league standings. In turn, a team that has a better overall resume that finished behind a team with an inferior overall resume may be stuck waiting for the team that finished ahead of them to get picked.
• The top 12 teams are seeded in Divisions I-V. The remaining four teams are unseeded and matched up with seeds 9 through 12 with proximity and avoiding league matchups considered.
• High seeds host all games other than championships, which are to be played at neutral sites.

is it all roses 🌹 in the ccs land ? In regards to a major majority being very happy with this structure ? What do the proponents say ?

 

[viper221980]

Yeah exactly, the old system was better. This year had we truly gone by the rankings they would have been a top 3 seed in D1 and Cardinal Newman would have been a top 5 seed. Instead because of the silly 2 division up limit they were the 1 and 2 seeds in D2 and rolled to the championship game to face each other winning the games leading up to it by an average of 23 points. That's not competitive equity its stacking the deck for D4 and D5 private schools that don't make the open division to win NCS titles

Couldn't Moreau have petitioned to be D1 at the beginning of the season?

 

[Smallveteran]

Si 54 Dublin 52 5 min

 

[Smallveteran]

Si 65 62 45 sefonds

 

[Smallveteran]

Si wins