NCS open-division 3 seedings
- Thread starter Smallveteran
- Start date
I think you're missing the forest for the trees here. Without those NCS rules, one of Moreau, Redwood, Dougherty Valley or Clayton Valley Charter wouldn't have made Norcals because only the top 3 seeds from each division qualify. Do you want a worse team to advance instead?
I DO think NCS needs to rethink how they rank teams and have it much more based on how they're going to rank them at the state level. Having Open teams ranked below Division 1 teams is a bad look, and I blame NCS for determining the Open teams based on different criteria than were going to be used for Norcals.
Yeah that also is a bad rule. If we are going to put all the good teams in Open and D1 then more teams should make NorCals from those divisions than in the lower divisions. You are 100 percent right that there is a lot wrong with the current system. I definitely don't want worse teams advancing and want the NCS playoffs to be competitive and for NCS teams to be competitive in NorCals
In a way did the system not work out to near perfection!?! This Does not mean it is not flawed. It did do what it was supppse to do. The 12 highest ranked teams all made regionals . Whether the conduit was through div 3, 2 , div 1 or open.
With that in mind tweaks need to be made to the system. We are not far off. Do not blow it all up!
Give the two extra regional spots to div 1. Pull two of the four that d 6 is given. It is not equitable to allow d6 so many spots. Allow anyone to play div 1. Top 5 in Div 1 make it to regionals. 31% of the teams in Div 1 make regionals vs 19% from d 2 through d 6. Competitive equity needs to be kept in mind. If it did not we would only give 1 spot to each division d-3 to d-6 . It does though !
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One of the challenges with the concept above is the following - Branson, San Domenico , Newman , Moreau would of all made it to div 1 . If all played out based on seeding merits. Two of the teams listed above would not of made it to regionals. Now we have a new problem …
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I like the CCS system. All 8 Open teams advance to NorCal’s. Then all 10 teams that make the regional final in D1-5 also make NorCal’s. Then the final 3 spots are awarded to the best 3 remaining teams that lost in the regional semifinals. It’s not perfect, and picking the final 3 teams is subjective, but they usually get it right.
The CCS system would allow all 4 of the D1 teams in your scenario to make NorCal’s. Unless they lost before the semifinals, in which case I don’t think they deserve to make it
The next step in the process of improving the system is the following. Get rid of the 3rd place games (4 total spots we already took away d 6 in previous post) and give those spots to div 1 . The new total regional spots allocated to div 1 is nine.
You win your 1st round game your in. You lose your out. Seems like a good reward for pushing to get into the div 1 bracket . The Glory and you have to believe you can at least win one !!! We would have 1 spot left over.
The justification/battle would need to be on the competitive equity side .
One other change I’d like to see the NCS make is allowing a team to move up as high a division as deemed worthy. But keep the 2 division limit for moving teams down.
I don’t mind ccs setup on surface. We would need to run scenarios based on previous years. To see how this truly stacks up vs other options. At the end of day we want as many good teams to make it . While keeping in mind their are schools that will never provide an opportunity to compete at high levels. Competitive equity !
Yes. Any team can make open. Then it reverts to enrollment for D1-D5 for regionals. NorCal’s is competitive equity.
Here’s a brief summary of the CCS Committee Selection process: (courtesy of Ethan Kassel)
- The Open Division will have exactly eight teams, split into two groups for pool play. The pool winners advance to the championship game.
- Divisions I through V (by enrollment) can have a maximum of 16 teams. The brackets give double byes to the top four teams and single byes to the fifth through eighth seeds.
- Computer rankings are NOT on the list of criteria used by the committee, though they can provide a somewhat accurate base.
- The committee considers head-to-head results, results against common opponents, significant wins and strength of schedule. For the Open Division, strength of league is considered, rather than strength of schedule, and playoff history is also taken into consideration.
- Generally speaking, head-to-head results and league standings are the most important determining factors.
- Each league can only have one team on the board at a time, and those usually go in order of league standings. In turn, a team that has a better overall resume that finished behind a team with an inferior overall resume may be stuck waiting for the team that finished ahead of them to get picked.
- The top 12 teams are seeded in Divisions I-V. The remaining four teams are unseeded and matched up with seeds 9 through 12 with proximity and avoiding league matchups considered.
- High seeds host all games other than championships, which are to be played at neutral sites.
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is it all roses 🌹 in the ccs land ? In regards to a major majority being very happy with this structure ? What do the proponents say ?
NCS
After all the postings we have made together
Their are only (3) teams standing for a possible State Championship
Open
De La Salle
Div 1
San Ramon Valley
Div 5
International
After all the postings we have made together
Their are only (3) teams standing for a possible State Championship
Open
De La Salle
Div 1
San Ramon Valley
Div 5
International
2025
5 ccs 4 San Joaquin 3 NCS 0 central
Sjs teams
Lincoln
Jesuit Destiny Christian
Fortune Early
5 ccs 4 San Joaquin 3 NCS 0 central
Sjs teams
Lincoln
Jesuit Destiny Christian
Fortune Early
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2024 number of teams each section had heading into regional championships
NCS 5
CCS 3
Oakland Section 2
Central 1
SJS 1
NCS 5
CCS 3
Oakland Section 2
Central 1
SJS 1
CCS D5 vs D3 champs are playing for D4 state berth
The D4 champs are playing D1 runner up for D3 state berth.
Way to go seeding committee.
The D4 champs are playing D1 runner up for D3 state berth.
Way to go seeding committee.
So wait a minute ccs d 3 champs moved back a division for regionals ?
Ok from a common sense perspective this seems really suspicious. Now go ahead and talk some sense into these two moves. On the far away surface. I do believe DeMarco was injured at the beginning of the year? I’m not sure for how long. Possibly this tilted the computer system a bit. Allowing the justification for that move. Maybe? Just maybe? I’m not sure. I’m just trying here.
It’s really hard to get excited about anything below the D2 level, unless you have a dog in the fight. The Open & D1 championships are real and meaningful. D2 less so, but head & shoulders above everything else.
Everyone knows there is only 1 true state champion, the Open Winner. All other Open participants can lick their wounds and know they competed with the best. D1 has a bracket full of heavyweights, all of whom just fell short of being in the Open.
Everyone knows there is only 1 true state champion, the Open Winner. All other Open participants can lick their wounds and know they competed with the best. D1 has a bracket full of heavyweights, all of whom just fell short of being in the Open.
Starting in D2 and up to D5. Does each section receive a jokers wild card ? Or is it just CCS ?
Alright in all seriousness observer it’s still fun watching these teams compete . I was impressed with Oakland Tech and Santa Cruz last year. You no ? I hear ya lots of good teams in d1 knocked out. Still looking forward to State games d3 and above. I’ll even take some d4 just need some sunlight in between.
It’s still fun and yes I’ll watch, but below D2 there are just some suspect teams competing.
Take Alhambra for instance. They came in 9th place in the DAL this year, a mostly D2 & D3 league (Campo, CVC, Las Lomas, Acalanes…). They were a D3 school and finished under .500, but qualified for the NCS playoffs with an .500 record vs D3 teams and got put in D5.
They ran the table to win NCS D5, and came within 1 point of reaching the D5 NorCal final with a 50-49 loss to International on Saturday. Very exciting for the kids and their fans, but just hard for me to get excited about.
Makes sense d5 is most certainly rough most certainly for ncs. D4 ncs also touchy . D3 had Branson couple other decent teams . Regionals D3 has kings academy. Thats a nice d3 team . Not going to convince you into watching them . I am sure you can find other ball to watch.
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This will come as no surprise to veterans of this forum... I watch 'em all.
Then after this weekend, I will hibernate til November (except for the June scrimmage weeks).
Ya never know what you're gonna find... For example, there's Lauren Harris, dominating in D6 for Faith Christian of Yuba City. Hell of a player... She'll play college ball somewhere, at some level... Very much worth a watch. I saw her in the SJS Finals at Golden 1.
Then after this weekend, I will hibernate til November (except for the June scrimmage weeks).
Ya never know what you're gonna find... For example, there's Lauren Harris, dominating in D6 for Faith Christian of Yuba City. Hell of a player... She'll play college ball somewhere, at some level... Very much worth a watch. I saw her in the SJS Finals at Golden 1.
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