Riverdale vs Stewart's Creek there remix 5pm PST Wednesday
- Thread starter jazzpt55
- Start date
It doesn't matter in my book. I have St. John's ranked higher than the less challenged Riverdale regardless. Just ask yourself a simple question..... Who has played the tougher schedule? And who responded best to that challenge? Then that is the team that has earned the right to be called the better team IMO.
Unless you want to call one the best team on paper and the other the most proven. Then you'd need more than one chart.
No, I keep an open mind while not playing favorites. And I wait until the end of the season so all top teams have played their seasons before just giving the crown to the best team on paper. Especially if that team took the easier route. I never said St. John's was #1 or not #1 at this point. Because I don't want to place them there and another team comes along a week later and bumps them down after other teams finish their seasons. So I will have a final poll at the close of the season. Who knows St. John's may make #1 on my list at the season's end. I won't determine that until all results are in.
You literally just said yesterday on the other thread that you had St Johns at #5....
(That list was only put there to use as a reference for the discussion I was having with Jazz on that topic)
That was where I had St. Johns on that date. If you were to take a close look, I included the fact that there would be movement in my ranking, as games were played. I just have not released an updated poll. I could rush one together now, but thought since we are close to the season's end, I'd wait. That way, I would not have to adjust it as often, to reflect games that are played daily and weekly, up to the season's end across the country. I'm not sure where St. John's will end up on my list at the end of the season. It could be #1? And I would highly doubt it would be less than #5. But I will take into account their BOW as well as other BOW's from top teams around the nation at season's end. My guess is I will announce my final list sometime after the 2nd or 3rd week in March.
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Fair enough.. I misread the poll the first time. Do you try to watch any of the top teams games? That was the second time I got to see St Johns play a second half and I was definitely impressed once again. Unfortunately I haven't gotten to see Miami Country Day or Riverdale or Monocan yet.
I saw St. John's play this season once live and once online. They are as good as anyone out there when they are playing at the top of their game. I saw MCD play twice live this season. But I have not seen either Monocan or Riverdale play this season. Unfortunately neither showed up to the TOC. I have seen Riverdale in the past. My biggest knock on Riverdale and Monacan is IMO their lack of challenge. It's hard to justify ranking them the top team in the nation when they took a far easier path than so many other top ranked teams who were highly challenged.
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If St. John's hadn't lost badly to Clovis West, they'd have a very good case for No. 1. This is where I think margin of victory comes in ... if I'm not mistaken, CW was up by close to 30 and then coasted home to win by 18. If that game was an overtime loss, I might view the result differently. And Mitty has the same issue, having lost badly to St. John's, while beating CW in OT.
It's definitely not clearcut this year ...
It's definitely not clearcut this year ...
Clay I get that point, but please remember CW easily handled Centennial the 1st time they played. And game two appeared to be just the opposite. Things happen. The best team doesn't always win. And the best team in the nation can have an off game or injuries etc....
That is why everything from how a team was challenged to margin of victory is taken into account. But you can't stop there because you must take into account if the bench was cleared and the other team kept their starters in the game to run up the score. Because some coaches want to lose badly to tank and give the impression their team is not good enough to be in say the Open in California? Or some give up sooner and/or don't want to risk getting their starters hurt in a game they are overmatched in? Or some coaches are kinder than others and won't run a score up under any circumstance. While other coaches will run a score up because they have a more competitive nature than some other coaches. Or their goal is to give the impression they are the #1 team in the country so they run scores up to create the impression or perception they want. Then you take into account when the games were played, and the stress level the team was under at the time. Did they have all their key players available and healthy? Was it a TOC or Iolani Tournament? Did the team sleep in their own bed the night before the game? Did they know their opponent and the refs? Was the game at home or on the road? Did they lose to the #1 or a high ranked team (at the time of the loss)? Because that could be impressive at the time. But a week or two later that #1 team may have fallen to #8 or lower, which may not look as impressive later on. Did the team peak too early? Did another team end the season as a far better team than they were in say week #2? That is why we see some lower seeds upset higher seeds in the NBA and NFL, college, etc..... at playoff time. Many teams catch up to the pack and/or get better than the pack later on. It's not how you start a season, game, or challenge that defines you, but how you end them.
All that said, a lot more has to go into determining the top team than just the number of "so call", or even committed, D1 players. Or whether or not a team went undefeated and were challenged or not.
And you don't win or lose the national championship on my list in the beginning or middle of the season. The entire B.O.W. is taken into account along with the entire B.O.W. of other top national teams.
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Amazing ....this is the team that two years ago was kicked out of their Tennessee playoffs when RD and their opponent Smyrna played a game that both
Tried to lose...
Weird things happen in Tennessee I don't bet on anything after that fiasco....just two years ago
Tried to lose...
Weird things happen in Tennessee I don't bet on anything after that fiasco....just two years ago
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Clay, just curious whether an Xcellent25 national champion has ever had such a low strength of schedule as Riverdale does this year (14.3)? Even Neumann-Goretti a few years back had an SOS of 16.9. Feels like it ought to be a disqualifier to me, just a personal opinion of course.
There's a difference between strength of schedule and playing quality games. If a team's league is weak (see Long Beach Poly), there's nothing they can do about that rating -- but if they play some quality opponents, it can make up for it.
Riverdale has a couple very nice wins, and will have to win a couple more to take the Tennessee title. And they're really good ...
Riverdale has a couple very nice wins, and will have to win a couple more to take the Tennessee title. And they're really good ...
The difference is at least you know LBP will eventually get tested in the California Open State Championship. Not to forget LBP also showed up to the TOC and Iolani. And the "so call" quality teams should be on the radar and recognized by others also as a "quality team". Were they in the nation's top 20? There is no excuse for ranking unchallenged teams number 1 in the nation overall. If you most reward the #1 to a team that goes unchallenged and undefeated then there should be two charts minimun put out. One would be the best undefeated/ unchallenged team. And the most credible one would be the best overall team regardless to their record just as long as they played and passed a large number of real test and challenges.
For those who want the latter list I will put one out at the completion of the season. It will allow all state championships to conclude so I can take everything and every team into consideration.
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I don't think it's fair to say Riverdale has been "unchallenged." Traveling to Georgia to play the No. 10 team in the nation qualifies as a challenge for me -- and then beating them by 19 is rising to that challenge.
One can certainly argue that Riverdale hasn't been challenged as often, but Tennessee is a very good state for girls' basketball. California, of course, is as well.
One can certainly argue that Riverdale hasn't been challenged as often, but Tennessee is a very good state for girls' basketball. California, of course, is as well.
Who is the "so call " #10 team in the nation? Don't say Norcross as they are not good enough to be in the top 40. Is it the #10 team on the list that ranks soft scheduled teams that go unchallenged #1 in the nation? If so we'll have to void or disqualify that ranking as not credible IMO. Unless of course it is backed up with a more credible list.
Clay here is an offer. Why don't you put a word in with Max Prep for me to create Max Prep's best challenged overall team list. That way Max Prep can have your list which allows unchallenged teams who go undefeated to be #1 and my list which would take everything or at least more things into account.
I guarantee you the balance that would create would make both you and Max Prep look like champs. Give it some thought. You know how to reach me.
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So Clay is pitching to Max Preps what? Some parent and blogger wants to do a ranking on the "best challenged team" ranking? I assume they will respond with a NO. might add they have a SOS number so they already have this information and they have a computer generated ranking/rating system but thanks for applying..
Hey talk to Max preps for me also...mine will be the teams that have done the most with the worst coaching...
Hey talk to Max preps for me also...mine will be the teams that have done the most with the worst coaching...
Hey the more in-depth we get without a playoff system the closer we get to getting it right. I think that would be an awesome chart. We could also get a haters chart put together by the trolls and haters we have on board. The more the better. Plus that would give haters something a bit more meaningful to do. So kids can stay out of grown folks business. Just hit us back Clay once you pitch these wonderful ideas. LOL......
I think the problem with the "challenge" is that it really only allows the rich schools, or coaches who are willing to fundraise, to compete. For example, it costs about $10,000 to go to the TOC from the Bay Area, and presumably significantly more from the East Coast. I'm talking to a coach from Alaska who wants to come to the WCJ and he says it's a $15,000 trip.
I really think it would be unfair to give teams with access to financial resources a significant advantage when it comes to national rankings.
I really think it would be unfair to give teams with access to financial resources a significant advantage when it comes to national rankings.
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