SFL best league in NorCal

[ThunderRam]

Let Folsom not run from De la and u will get ur answer....

When an SFL team can keep a game within 17 of DLS then maybe you have something to say.

I've taken the middle of the road in this discussion. Both leagues are great.

But I gotta point out that when you resort to involving DLS, which last anybody looked is not in the WCAL, you're essentially conceding your argument because your grasping at irrelevant straws.

An SFL fan can easily ask when the last time a WCAL team beat a PAC-5 champ as GB did in 2012. It's no more relevant to the discussion.

I don't even believe the recent head-2-head results between the WCAL and SFL (which the SFL has the edge) is a tell all. But at least that's something directly relevant to bring up.

Top WCAL teams would probably play Folsom as good as Granite Bay.WCAL teams play good defense see DLS scores compared to Ebal and SFL. Not like Folsom dominated Granite Bay and Not like Granite Bay dominated DelOro. Again all about matchups and WCal defenses and speed at the top probably match up well. Wcal offenses at top have good control offenses with playmakers as well. Looks like in my opinion that the games would be some good ones.

Don't forget that Rocklin actually gave Folsom their toughest league game. They led at half and, sans 2 really bad plays, likely could have won. They had a pick 6 to begin the game and then lost a fumble into the endzone just before crossing the plane that would have given them a 21-13 lead in the 3rd qtr. GB never really threatened to win the game they played against Folsom.

Hey everyone...CAL-Hi listed the WCAL at the 3rd best team in CA. I stated that and the Valley posted wanted antidote proof.

So you only mention the "anecdotal" evidence (nobody was poisoned, were they?) that supports your POV? Shocking.

Calpreps, which is much more scientific since it uses data from all games played, has rated the SFL higher the past 2 years.

2015

SFL: Ranked #3 in CA, 43.9 rating
WCAL: Ranked #6 in CA, 39 rating

2014

SFL: Ranked #3 in CA, 40.9 rating
WCAL: Ranked #12 in CA, 33.1 rating

Like the CAL-HI reference, it proves absolutely nothing. But the point is that two can play that game -- only listing evidence that supports their claim.

 

[ThunderRam]

This is rich. Exactly what is the SJS D-II bracket about this year? A bunch of second-place and lower teams not only getting a chance at a sectional championship, but a state title.

Strange year, because D2 in the SJS has been the toughest bracket in the SJS for most of the past 6 or 7 years.

The new format has mucked things up a bit.

 

[RiordanGael]

There seem to be some very negative sentiments on this board. I apologize if I offended anyone. I am just offering my opinion.

HaHa...Opinions are like back sides, everybody got one. It is two where the problem lies. Now if we include Bertha...two butts would work (lol)

 

[RiordanGael]

So on a thread that was somewhat boring...

A great voice from the city challenges the claim of SFL is the best league in NorCal.

Changed your day and brought your BP up in some of you.

One had to admit, this is the best time of year....when the pundit comes out in all of us(lol)

Happy Thanksgiving all you Turkey's and I hope to see some of you in Sac this year.

We Are One...We R Riordan and yes the WCAL will be there.....

 

[ThunderRam]

We Are One...We R Riordan and yes the WCAL will be there.....

I love your enthusiasm, but, admittedly, find it comical that a Riordan fan is riding the coattails of the WCAL so hard. A league that has been absolutely dominated by Bellarmine, St. Francis, and, to a lesser degree, Serra for the better part of nearly 50 years.

It's somewhat akin to a Woodcreek fan coming into this thread ranting and raving about how great the SFL is nowadays. Like WC in the SFL, Riordan doesn't add to the cachet of the WCAL in the least. But their fan is chirping the loudest. Awesome.

 

[RiordanGael]

Just like in the WCC that is ruled by GON. Post league play we come together and cheer WCC. That is the Gael in me...

The WCAL is akin to that mindset, may it be the Private vs. Public debate or just the fact that our league is about more than sports and has some kind of belief to it, may be manifested in grad rates, college acceptance, or even our mandatory community service. The product is a higher quality. Our competition at Riordan is not the "low bar" of Flosom or any other SFL school. It is the stellar programs at SF, Bellarmine or any other WCAL program that produces a better product on and off the field. Feel free to counter (lol)

So your chirp...chirp theroy falls to ears out in the valley where you can here each other have the secular mindset or thought...

We Are One...We R Riordan & you will feel like U have been in hell, When u play the WCAL (lol)

All day....it is just to easy(LOL)

 

[paul_johnson884]

Fascinating that an all public school league is in the discussion for the best league in Nor Cal.

The anti-private school excuse makers must be scratching their heads.

 

[NorCalSportsFan]

Folsom had a tough time against the double wing (CVC) and Bells run it to perfection with lots of speed (much more than the Eagles). QB is very good as well.

 

[ThunderRam]

Folsom had a tough time against the double wing (CVC) and Bells run it to perfection with lots of speed (much more than the Eagles). QB is very good as well.

Folsom is certainly beatable. I've been saying that all season.

That said, I do think the CVC game should be taken with a grain of salt. It was week 0 and Folsom was replacing something like 18 or 19 starters from the season before, including the QB. They were at their most vulnerable than at any point in the season and have markedly improved since.

People always talk about how DLS is most vulnerable at the beginning of the season and that their closest games almost always happen within the few few games. Well, I think the same could be said of Folsom this year given the circumstances.

Folsom's strength is on their lines. Their defense is really solid. The offense isn't prolific, but they can run the ball pretty well and their dual threat QB makes them really difficult to defend. They win games by grinding it out on offense with first down after first down and a fundamentally sound defense that beats teams up front. And they have a pretty dynamic playmaker in Drake Stallworth.

I think Elk Grove and Bellarmine can beat them, but they'll both need to play exceptionally well to do so.

Robards and Martig are HUGE x-factors for their respective teams. Robards impact is immeasurable. A defense can stop him as a RB, but the kid is a dynamic defensive player too. And he impacts the kick return game. And he is the kicker. Lots of way to beat ya.

Martig has the "it' factor. I saw it firsthand against Del Oro. That kid just makes plays. I believe the Bells only loss occurred when he missed the game.

If Folsom gets past Elk Grove/Oak Ridge and then Bellarmine -- they will have earned it.

 

[awood1]

How about we all agree that what ever league is most represented in the State Match ups with SoCal wins this race.

Can't happen under the new system as each section's play-offs are structured differently. Any SFL entry to the play-offs must compete at D1 (Folsom & Oak Rige) or D2 (Granite Bay, Del Oro & Rocklin). As a result, the absolute most representation would be 2 teams from the SFL.

 

[ThunderRam]

Can't happen under the new system as each section's play-offs are structured differently. Any SFL entry to the play-offs must compete at D1 (Folsom & Oak Rige) or D2 (Granite Bay, Del Oro & Rocklin). As a result, the absolute most representation would be 2 teams from the SFL.

I don't think he'd really want to go down that road anyway, as you'd have to apply the same set of rules back through relatively short history of the Bowl games.

The SFL has 4 different teams that have made an appearance and has 6 appearances in total (3-3).
The WCAL has only had Bellermine as a rep and is 0-2.

The NorCal Regionals aren't in the WCAL's favor either.

Again, unlike some of the pro-SFL'ers, I don't believe any of the above proves that one league is better than the other.

Both are tremendous leagues. The WCAL has been great for a long time. The SFL has been up and down as teams have come in and out of the league over the years. This current makeup is as good as it's ever been. And it could get better if Nevada Union and/or Woodcreek are moved out. But imagine if NU was the program it used to be .....

 

[Oldschoolcity]

Agree with ThunderRam. The WCAL has maintained its original members, while there has been attrition with the SFL. SFL is a strong league, but can you imagine if DLS, Palma, SHP, and or Marin Catholic joined the WCAL. Hmmm...

 

[ThunderRam]

but can you imagine if DLS, Palma, SHP, and or Marin Catholic joined the WCAL. Hmmm...

Now you're on to something! Except that a couple of those schools are in a different section

 

[Oldschoolcity]

Yeah, just wishful thinking

 

[thehookup55]

SHP and Palma are too small of schools to belong in the WCAL. WCAL smallest schools are nearly double the enrollment of Palma and SHP. Palma is an all boy school with usually around 300-400 (enrollment numbers continue to drop) while SHP is around 600 co ed. Bellarmine is an all boy private school of about 1650 just for comparison.

 

[RiordanGael]

Can't happen under the new system as each section's play-offs are structured differently. Any SFL entry to the play-offs must compete at D1 (Folsom & Oak Rige) or D2 (Granite Bay, Del Oro & Rocklin). As a result, the absolute most representation would be 2 teams from the SFL.

So what I am hearing the SFL has only 2 teams in the run for a State Game. So do we want to wait and see if only 2 get tbrough? Or should we call it early...the WCAL wins by s nose of 1 more team.

After all this debate...only 2 teams for the SFL has the potential to get to the. state game. Sounds to me they are lacking depth as a league....(lol)

 

[FAR_NORTHERN]

The only reason the wcal will have more regional and possible state reps is because their loophole open divisions. We just might see 5 wcal schools in the regionals and 2 of them would not have won a section lmao. Besides that the SJS d1 and d2 winners will play in the top couple state divisions and those ccs schools (two losers) will be scattered through out. What would be really funny is if only 2 wcal schools got in both as runner ups lol.

 

[awood1]

So what I am hearing the SFL has only 2 teams in the run for a State Game. So do we want to wait and see if only 2 get tbrough? Or should we call it early...the WCAL wins by s nose of 1 more team.
After all this debate...only 2 teams for the SFL has the potential to get to the. state game. Sounds to me they are lacking depth as a league....(lol)

Of the 32 teams that qualified for the D1 & D2 (2 largest divisions) play-offs, 5 were from the SFL.
8 teams remain, including all 5 from the SFL.
The SJS will only allow section WINNERS in to the Regional Bowls, hence even if all 4 of the semi-finals teams in D1 & D2 were SFL teams, only 2 would be allowed to compete in the Regional Bowls.

Public school mentality says that it just doesn't make sense to reward a losing team with a Regional Bowl.

It's that mentality that has put 4 different SFL teams in 6 SBGs that went 3-3.

 

[MCIC]

RiordanGael said: ↑
So what I am hearing the SFL has only 2 teams in the run for a State Game. So do we want to wait and see if only 2 get tbrough? Or should we call it early...the WCAL wins by s nose of 1 more team.
After all this debate...only 2 teams for the SFL has the potential to get to the. state game. Sounds to me they are lacking depth as a league....(lol)


The Trinity league in the south gets 1 team to potentially have a run for a State Game. I guess by your logic that league lacks depth as well (St. John Boscp, Mater Dei, JSerra, Orange Lutheran, Servite, Santa Margarita).

Please think before typing!

 

[Hatchball]

The CCS getting an exception to allow 2 runner ups into the regionals while a bracket like the Pac 5 south only gets the bracket winner is kind of ridiculous.

 

[RodneyPete45]

Of the 32 teams that qualified for the D1 & D2 (2 largest divisions) play-offs, 5 were from the SFL.
8 teams remain, including all 5 from the SFL.
The SJS will only allow section WINNERS in to the Regional Bowls, hence even if all 4 of the semi-finals teams in D1 & D2 were SFL teams, only 2 would be allowed to compete in the Regional Bowls.

Public school mentality says that it just doesn't make sense to reward a losing team with a Regional Bowl.

It's that mentality that has put 4 different SFL different teams in 6 SBGs that went 3-3.

Well said awood1

 

[awood1]

The CCS getting an exception to allow 2 runner ups into the regionals while a bracket like the Pac 5 south only gets the bracket winner is kind of ridiculous.

Yup. It is the antithesis of the CCS. The lumping together of talent plays out well in the regular season and league match-ups, but eliminates some very good teams from Regional / SBG contention.

 

[RiordanGael]

RiordanGael said: ↑
So what I am hearing the SFL has only 2 teams in the run for a State Game. So do we want to wait and see if only 2 get tbrough? Or should we call it early...the WCAL wins by s nose of 1 more team.
After all this debate...only 2 teams for the SFL has the potential to get to the. state game. Sounds to me they are lacking depth as a league....(lol)


The Trinity league in the south gets 1 team to potentially have a run for a State Game. I guess by your logic that league lacks depth as well (St. John Boscp, Mater Dei, JSerra, Orange Lutheran, Servite, Santa Margarita).

Please think before typing!

Think before one types???

WTF....this is a NorCal debate and a southern is trolling to add two freaky g cents....

Yeah, your point really rings true...(lol)

 

[RodneyPete45]

Think before one types???

WTF....this is a NorCal debate and a southern is trolling to add two freaky g cents....

Yeah, your point really rings true...(lol)

RiordanGael- I think you need to switch to beer.

 

[prep_guru]

In 2009 Serra was beating DLS 7-0 at the half, DLS pulled the game out late for a 14-7 win. That Serra team went 3-4 in WCAL play, the Del Oro/Bellarmine argument is not a good one at all.

 

[RodneyPete45]

In 2009 Serra was beating DLS 7-0 at the half, DLS pulled the game out late for a 14-7 win. That Serra team went 3-4 in WCAL play, the Del Oro/Bellarmine argument is not a good one at all.

How is 2009 reflective of 2015?

The Del Oro/Bellarmine argument is not completely indicative of which league is better. I believe it was more a reference to there are THREE other better teams in the SFL then Del Oro. You can do the simple math from there.

God Bless.

 

[RiordanGael]

In review of the listed points on either side. It seems that even my argument of teams left standing can be jaded because CCS had more clout with Secton champions & NorCal regional games selection. There is not a pure abstract way to answer this question.

With that in mind...I will simply declare WCAL the best in NorCal and state it has the same amount Of value than any other declaration.

I can reference a recent article in SF Chronicle stating that as the mist abstracts opinion given to date.

Yes...We Are One...We R Riordan and of course We r the WCAL.

 

[CaliTrojan4Life]

In 2009 Serra was beating DLS 7-0 at the half, DLS pulled the game out late for a 14-7 win. That Serra team went 3-4 in WCAL play, the Del Oro/Bellarmine argument is not a good one at all.

So is Del Oro 28-20 win over Serra in the Regional Championship Game a good one? The actual game that tells you which league is stronger at the end of the year. And don't let me start on Granite Bay beating St. Ignatius the year before. And while the champion of the SFL Folsom is playing DLS for the D-1 Regional Championship Game. As soon as the WCAL fan base started using DLS as the measuring stick that's when they lost this debate. DLS has nothing to do with this. Even if a WCAL or a SFL team had beaten DLS it would hold no weight on which league is better at the end of the day.

 

[Cal 14]

Yup. It is the antithesis of the CCS. The lumping together of talent plays out well in the regular season and league match-ups, but eliminates some very good teams from Regional / SBG contention.

Geesh, you're trying to make it sound like it's some sort of long-term mentality. For the last 10+ years, the CCS setup was nearly identical as that of the SS with the Open Division.

The reason for the change, in my opinion, was the NCS. The NCS allows any team to stay in their own enrollment division and so their teams were getting through in lower divisions, while the CCS teams of similar enrollment were getting either bypassed by larger schools in D-I or getting eliminated by D-I sized schools. What the CCS did this year was level the playing field.

 

[Cal 14]

So is Del Oro 28-20 win over Serra in the Regional Championship Game a good one? The actual game that tells you which league is stronger at the end of the year.

Why would it tell you that? That game should have only told you that DO outplayed Serra on that night. Nothing more was settled.

 

[Cal 14]

The CCS getting an exception to allow 2 runner ups into the regionals while a bracket like the Pac 5 south only gets the bracket winner is kind of ridiculous.

It's also the fault of the SS. Next year, they are expected to correct that. Look for their top division to be called an "Open". Then, what are you going to be saying?

 

[aztecpadre]

I don't buy into the length of the trip thing. Besides, a trip to SJ is much shorter than the one these kids have been making down to Carson the past 10 years.

Del Oro had to travel to San Jose to face Serra in the playoffs a couple years ago. They had to go to Berkley to play Punahou. Travel is part of the game, especially for the top tier programs that often travel far out of their area for better games.

Fresno, LA, SD, Redding. This is par for the course nowadays. I don't think it's a big deal.

As I said earlier, both leagues are great. The SFL has probably been better than past couple of seasons. The WCAL has been better in others.

At this point, it's kind of like arguing over who is hotter -- Scarlett Johansson or Jennifer Love Hewitt. You can't go wrong with either answer.

Scarlett Johansson and its not even close.

 

[joebl]

Let's take opinions out of it and look at Calpreps:
for Nor Cal:
2015: 1. SFL 2.WCAL, 3. Delta
2014: 1. SFL 2.Delta 3. WCAL
2013: 1. Delta 2. WCAL 3.SFL
2012: 1. WCAL 2.Delta 3. SFL
2011: 1. SFL 2. WCAL 3. East Bay

Last couple years it looks like SFL is top rated but over the past 5 years you could argue that between Delta, SFL and WCAL you have the 3 best leagues but they are all pretty close.

 

[MCIC]

Let's take opinions out of it and look at Calpreps:
for Nor Cal:
2015: 1. SFL 2.WCAL, 3. Delta
2014: 1. SFL 2.Delta 3. WCAL
2013: 1. Delta 2. WCAL 3.SFL
2012: 1. WCAL 2.Delta 3. SFL
2011: 1. SFL 2. WCAL 3. East Bay

Last couple years it looks like SFL is top rated but over the past 5 years you could argue that between Delta, SFL and WCAL you have the 3 best leagues but they are all pretty close.

In 2012 and 2013, Oak Ridge and Folsom were in the Delta River League, not the SFL.

 

[Hatchball]

Before Oak Ridge and Folsom joined the SFL, you could make a strong argument for the WCAL, but after the re-alignment it really isn't up for debate. This is coming from a CCS/WCAL guy. If the WCAL added Palma and Sacred Heart Prep then you could bring the debate back, but for now the SFL is the stronger league until otherwise proven on the field in cross-section games.

 

[NorCalSportsFan]

Not sure by adding Palma and SHP will help. Palma should be very good next season but huge down classes for soph and frosh classes. SHP lower levels doesn't look very strong as well.

 

[gsladen]

Can't happen under the new system as each section's play-offs are structured differently. Any SFL entry to the play-offs must compete at D1 (Folsom & Oak Rige) or D2 (Granite Bay, Del Oro & Rocklin). As a result, the absolute most representation would be 2 teams from the SFL.

Did they change the system this year.There are five teams in the SFL Elk Grove ,Del Oro St Marys can't remember the other two that have to play up to division II,If they win out and go to a bowl they have to play up to division I.I didn't think it was fair when Del Oro had to play in division I bowl,when they were a division III team.Why don't they go by enrollment.

 

[jimmyzr1]

Folsom still has to get through St Mary's and winner of Elk Grove/Oak Ridge. Elk Grove from Delta looks like it could be really good and shouldn't be discounted. Bellarmine WCAL will probably face aaa tough Milpitas. If all goes with the projections you might just see a a WCAL / SFL game.

Because Bellarmine only defeated DelOro in close game doesn't guarantee Folsom wins big by virtue of bigger margin of victory. Match ups come into play and both programs have been in big games. Serra WCAL only lost to DeLaSalle
by 17 which lost to Bells by 8. DelOro Lost to DLS 41-3. Does this mean Bells should have won by much larger margin? They won and all that matters.

Clayton Valley which defeated in close game a Monte Vista which was defeated by 20 by Pittsburg. Is Pittsburg better than Folsom?

Folsom barely beat CVC because they had a new Qb, new receivers, lines, and just about every position but about one. It took Folsom a few games to gel. If Folsom played CVC at this point, it wouldn't even be close, Folsom would beat them fairly easily. Now that being said, I think Folsom is going to have their hands full getting by Elk Grove. I wouldn't be surprised if Elk Grove won or Folsom won. Of course, both teams still need to win their next games to get to that point.

 

[awood1]

Did they change the system this year.There are five teams in the SFL Elk Grove ,Del Oro St Marys can't remember the other two that have to play up to division II,If they win out and go to a bowl they have to play up to division I.I didn't think it was fair when Del Oro had to play in division I bowl,when they were a division III team.Why don't they go by enrollment.

It's a mess and they tinker with it every year. As a non-native, I asked the very same question and was about thrown under the bus for being so dumb. "Don't you know that ALL the BIG schools are in SoCal!?!"

It COULD be done, but sections would have to agree and be happy with it. The sections all operate independently for the most part and make up their rules based on what works best for their particular situation. (BTW this is the only state I have ever heard of that doesn't operate under a single governing body)

What the CIFSJS has done over the years has said that if you win a section, you are forced to play up the next year. In 2010, Folsom was on the border of D1 & D2 base on enrollment and who made the playoffs (16 largest are supposed to comprise D1, next 16 D2, etc.) so we won D2 and were selected to play in the D2 SBG.

BUT when they try to align the CIFSJS D2 & D3 with the SBG (again roughly based on enrollment) the D3 SJS Section champ aligns with the SBG D2!?

 

[jimmyzr1]

Folsom had a tough time against the double wing (CVC) and Bells run it to perfection with lots of speed (much more than the Eagles). QB is very good as well.

Folsom had a tough time with CVC because every position but one was replaced this year. They needed a few games to start to gel.