SJS D1-D3 Finals
- Thread starter Streak One
- Start date
Thank you for the update. VDL & Manteca are in D3--Colfax is in D4. I think everyone knew VDL would win the D3 section, after receiving a downgrade from D2 to D3. I think the SJS Selection Committee went in alphabetical order starting from the bottom to push VDL into D3, ( to make equal # of teams in each division) without any thought process to how good they really are.
As for Whitney (Rocklin), they need to move up to D1 after consecutive D2 section titles.
Another team that needs to move up in Division is Colfax. Colfax has around a half-dozen or more SJS section titles in D4 and D5.
Rams lead Folsom 24-19 at the half.
Rogers and Lee have combined for 18 points.
Uriate has 7 for Folsom
Rogers and Lee have combined for 18 points.
Uriate has 7 for Folsom
As mentioned above, the SJS Selection Committee was either biased or not very smart when it came to putting Vista Del Lago (VDL) in D3, even though they are a D2 team. The latest MaxPreps rankings as of 2/19/2024 has:
VDL ranked #3 in Division 2 in the SJS and
VDL ranked #10 in ALL of the SJS (a top 10 team in the entire SJS)
Vista del Lago High School (Folsom, CA) Girls Varsity Basketball
See the Vista del Lago Eagles's Girls basketball schedule, roster, rankings, standings and more on MaxPreps.com
www.maxpreps.com
California Sac-Joaquin Section Girls Basketball Rankings
MaxPreps Sac-Joaquin Section Girls Basketball Rankings. View Sac-Joaquin Section Girls Basketball ranking list. All Sac-Joaquin Section Girls Basketball teams are listed. Find out where your teams stands... Use the "Find my Team" feature to quickly locate your team!
www.maxpreps.com
As for Colfax, they have won 12 (a dozen) SJS section championships going into tomorrow night; three in Division III and nine in Division IV. So after tomorrow night they may have 13 SJS section championships. See link below from January 7, 2013
HS girls basketball teams cashing in with most section crowns
The Sac-Joaquin Section has some great talent in its girls high school basketball programs. 10 teams have won five or more division titles since 1975. The boys may have some competition from these high-scoring ladies programs.
www.kcra.com
As for Bear River in D5, they have won 11 SJS section championships going into tomorrow night;
three in Division III, seven in Division IV, and one Division V title most recently in the 2021-22 season. Not quite sure why they keep going up higher in divisions. See link from January 7, 2013
HS girls basketball teams cashing in with most section crowns
The Sac-Joaquin Section has some great talent in its girls high school basketball programs. 10 teams have won five or more division titles since 1975. The boys may have some competition from these high-scoring ladies programs.
www.kcra.com
2022 CIF Sac-Joaquin Section Girls Basketball Playoffs (Division 5)
View the 2022 CIF Sac-Joaquin Section Girls Basketball Playoffs (Division 5) Bracket
www.maxpreps.com
What you said, re Vista. How do you push a top 4 D2 team down to D3 to balance the brackets?. Nonsensical at its highest. Logically wouldn’t you drop the lowest ranked D2 team down to D3? Make it make sense.As mentioned above, the SJS Selection Committee was either biased or not very smart when it came to putting Vista Del Lago (VDL) in D3, even though they are a D2 team. The latest MaxPreps rankings as of 2/19/2024 has:
VDL ranked #3 in Division 2 in the SJS and
VDL ranked #10 in ALL of the SJS (a top 10 team in the entire SJS)
Vista del Lago High School (Folsom, CA) Girls Varsity Basketball
See the Vista del Lago Eagles's Girls basketball schedule, roster, rankings, standings and more on MaxPreps.comCalifornia Sac-Joaquin Section Girls Basketball Rankings
MaxPreps Sac-Joaquin Section Girls Basketball Rankings. View Sac-Joaquin Section Girls Basketball ranking list. All Sac-Joaquin Section Girls Basketball teams are listed. Find out where your teams stands... Use the "Find my Team" feature to quickly locate your team!
As for Colfax, they have won 12 (a dozen) SJS section championships going into tomorrow night; three in Division III and nine in Division IV. So after tomorrow night they may have 13 SJS section championships. See link below from January 7, 2013
HS girls basketball teams cashing in with most section crowns
The Sac-Joaquin Section has some great talent in its girls high school basketball programs. 10 teams have won five or more division titles since 1975. The boys may have some competition from these high-scoring ladies programs.
As for Bear River in D5, they have won 11 SJS section championships going into tomorrow night;
three in Division III, seven in Division IV, and one Division V title most recently in the 2021-22 season. Not quite sure why they keep going up higher in divisions. See link from January 7, 2013
HS girls basketball teams cashing in with most section crowns
The Sac-Joaquin Section has some great talent in its girls high school basketball programs. 10 teams have won five or more division titles since 1975. The boys may have some competition from these high-scoring ladies programs.2022 CIF Sac-Joaquin Section Girls Basketball Playoffs (Division 5)
View the 2022 CIF Sac-Joaquin Section Girls Basketball Playoffs (Division 5) Bracket
Rams won 57-51.
Rogers had 21 and Lee had 20.
Uriarte had 21 for Folsom
Rogers had 21 and Lee had 20.
Uriarte had 21 for Folsom
I agree with you. But that's what was said on the SJS Selection Show by the SJS Commissioner. Had to make room because too many qualifying teams in D2. Yes--SJS Selection Committee didn't make any sense.
I appreciate you talking about this VDL situation, because no media is acknowledging it. Lots of upset parents out here.As mentioned above, the SJS Selection Committee was either biased or not very smart when it came to putting Vista Del Lago (VDL) in D3, even though they are a D2 team. The latest MaxPreps rankings as of 2/19/2024 has:
VDL ranked #3 in Division 2 in the SJS and
VDL ranked #10 in ALL of the SJS (a top 10 team in the entire SJS)
Vista del Lago High School (Folsom, CA) Girls Varsity Basketball
See the Vista del Lago Eagles's Girls basketball schedule, roster, rankings, standings and more on MaxPreps.comCalifornia Sac-Joaquin Section Girls Basketball Rankings
MaxPreps Sac-Joaquin Section Girls Basketball Rankings. View Sac-Joaquin Section Girls Basketball ranking list. All Sac-Joaquin Section Girls Basketball teams are listed. Find out where your teams stands... Use the "Find my Team" feature to quickly locate your team!
As for Colfax, they have won 12 (a dozen) SJS section championships going into tomorrow night; three in Division III and nine in Division IV. So after tomorrow night they may have 13 SJS section championships. See link below from January 7, 2013
HS girls basketball teams cashing in with most section crowns
The Sac-Joaquin Section has some great talent in its girls high school basketball programs. 10 teams have won five or more division titles since 1975. The boys may have some competition from these high-scoring ladies programs.
As for Bear River in D5, they have won 11 SJS section championships going into tomorrow night;
three in Division III, seven in Division IV, and one Division V title most recently in the 2021-22 season. Not quite sure why they keep going up higher in divisions. See link from January 7, 2013
HS girls basketball teams cashing in with most section crowns
The Sac-Joaquin Section has some great talent in its girls high school basketball programs. 10 teams have won five or more division titles since 1975. The boys may have some competition from these high-scoring ladies programs.2022 CIF Sac-Joaquin Section Girls Basketball Playoffs (Division 5)
View the 2022 CIF Sac-Joaquin Section Girls Basketball Playoffs (Division 5) Bracket
this is not complicated, and this playoff format has been this for what seems a decade, I think.
The SJS playoffs is an enrollment based playoff, with a slow crawl toward competitive equity via the continued success rule. So VDL is a D2/3 bubble team by enrollment. So depending on who makes the playoffs, the numbers dictate what division they are in. It's the same as Grant in FB this year. The playoff committee does not have to decide what division to place teams.. that is predetermined. Their job is solely seeding.
Now what bumps them down is the fact that you have smaller schools that get bumped into higher divisions... Del Oro is a D3 school in a D1 league, so they can't be lower than D2, and would be D1 if they won the league. Vanden is a D3 school and CB is a D4 school, but they are in D2 due to continued success... as is SM (D4) and Antelope (D3)in D1.
Colfax:
went through maxpreps and here's their recent history:
23: D4 champ
22 D4 semi
20 D5 champ
19: D4 semi
18 D5 champ
17 D4 1st rd
16D4 2nd
15 D4 2nd
12-14 d4 semi
so doesn't look like they are dominating.. they had good years and awesome years and bad years. The D4-5 switch is probably enrollment based.
Bear River:
23 D5 semi
22 D5 champ
for a decade before, they couldn't get out of the first round of D4 playoffs, and didn't make it some years.
so my point is, BR and colfax don't deserve hate.. I think they are in the appropriate division...
BUT: now that they both won this year:
colfax will be d4 semi-champ-champ: do they get the continued success applied next year to D3?
Bear river is D5 champ-semi-champ: same question to D4?
time will tell.
The SJS playoffs is an enrollment based playoff, with a slow crawl toward competitive equity via the continued success rule. So VDL is a D2/3 bubble team by enrollment. So depending on who makes the playoffs, the numbers dictate what division they are in. It's the same as Grant in FB this year. The playoff committee does not have to decide what division to place teams.. that is predetermined. Their job is solely seeding.
Now what bumps them down is the fact that you have smaller schools that get bumped into higher divisions... Del Oro is a D3 school in a D1 league, so they can't be lower than D2, and would be D1 if they won the league. Vanden is a D3 school and CB is a D4 school, but they are in D2 due to continued success... as is SM (D4) and Antelope (D3)in D1.
Colfax:
went through maxpreps and here's their recent history:
23: D4 champ
22 D4 semi
20 D5 champ
19: D4 semi
18 D5 champ
17 D4 1st rd
16D4 2nd
15 D4 2nd
12-14 d4 semi
so doesn't look like they are dominating.. they had good years and awesome years and bad years. The D4-5 switch is probably enrollment based.
Bear River:
23 D5 semi
22 D5 champ
for a decade before, they couldn't get out of the first round of D4 playoffs, and didn't make it some years.
so my point is, BR and colfax don't deserve hate.. I think they are in the appropriate division...
BUT: now that they both won this year:
colfax will be d4 semi-champ-champ: do they get the continued success applied next year to D3?
Bear river is D5 champ-semi-champ: same question to D4?
time will tell.
AND keep in mind, the enrollment numbers change every year.. so next year, VDL could move up or down if they gain or lose students... they could grow by 100 students and be a D2 lock. lose 100 and be a D3 lock
and they are in a D2 league next year, so if they win the league, they are locked into D2, but if their numbers stay down, they'll be D3 if they don't win league.
and just to play the game: folsom unified could open another school, then VDL could drop to D4 in theory. Unless they get continued success applied, which up to now, wouldn't apply.
and they are in a D2 league next year, so if they win the league, they are locked into D2, but if their numbers stay down, they'll be D3 if they don't win league.
and just to play the game: folsom unified could open another school, then VDL could drop to D4 in theory. Unless they get continued success applied, which up to now, wouldn't apply.
A lot of speculation in your last post. Vista has 1800 kids and was co-champs of a D2 league and was ranked No.3 in that division by Max. Grant, with no recent history of success, was No.5 before the switch. So I don’t get how Vista became No.1 in D3.
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First of all--there is NO HATE against Colfax or any team here. Colfax and Bear River have an outstanding basketball program. It's not there fault where they are placed in post-season playoffs. I'm only questioning the judgement of the SJS Selection Committee.
Per CalHiSports article dated 2/25/2024:
D4: Colfax 29-2
Juliette James had 18 points and Kaia Diederichs had 17 as the Falcons won their third section title in four years and 13th overall with a 64-48 win over Escalon (28-3). James also celebrated the 1,000th point scored of her career. This is the team that was runner-up in the CIF D3 state playoffs last season, but it may be hard for it to stay in D3. One of Colfax’s wins was against D3 section champ Vista del Lago.
Colfax was the 2022-23 Northern California Champion in D3, and lost in the state final to the SoCal team last year. So yes, based on SJS Basketball Format Rule, Section H, #5, Colfax should be placed in D3 next season, and could have been placed in D3 this season.
As for Vista Del Lago: Based on the SJS enrollment schedule and SJS Basketball Format Rule, Section H, #6, I think CHRISTIAN BROTHERS (CBS) should have been moved down to D3 in the SJS Section playoffs. CBS did not make the semi-finals in year 2021-22. Based on enrollment, they would be the next team to be dropped into D3, not Vista Del Lago.
5. If a school has maintained continued success over several years but has not won three straight Section titles, the Section Commissioner (in consultation with the Executive Committee) may recommend to the board that a school be moved to a higher division. Continued success may include, but not be limited to, the following:
a. Section semifinalist or finalist for four or more years in a row with at least one Section title; or
b. Four Section titles in a span of six years.
6. After a school has been moved to a level above its enrollment because of the three in a row rule or the continued success rule, that school may be moved down one level if the following occurs:
a. The school misses the playoffs in any year; or
b. The school fails to reach the semifinals in two consecutive years.
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the only speculation is what might happen next year.
but you are wrong on some things:
according to the cifsjs enrollment numbers, vdl was 1776, which puts them squarely on the enrollment bubble.
and they are in the CAL, which is a D3 league.
next year, realignment puts them in the CVC, a D2 league.
i'm not sure what grant has to do with anything, but if VDL was #3 in D2, then being #1 in D3 makes sense. and they won D3 so, there you go.
but all of the sjs playoff procedures, and enrollments are on the bkb page:
https://www.cifsjs.org/basketball
point being, the playoff committee doesn't put schools into divisions, that is predetermined by the format before they have the seeding meetings.
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well, that's not how it works. The state playoffs have no bearing on the section playoffs. The judgement of the SJS committee, if you are referring to the playoff seeding committee, didn't put colfax in D4. The rules put them in D4. And as I outlined before, it doesn't look like colfax has been dominating D4 as of late. they have been successful, but has only been in D4 the last 2 years, and have been switching D4 and D5 prior to that, and only have 1 championship in D4 the last decade... So one could argue they should've been locked into D4, since they seem to dominate D5. And there's an argument to bump them up to D3 next year, though I doubt it, as they've only made the finals in d4 this year and last year. One more year would do it.
As for CB: here are their last 8 years:
23 D2 final
22 2nd round
20 D2 champ
19 D3 final
18 D3 champ
17 D3 champ
16 D3 final
so they dominated D3, got bumped up to D2.. and got to the finals 2 of 3 years. so they don't meet the criteria for going down to D3. This year they got bounced in the 2nd round... so my guess is they'll be D2 next year, and if they don't make the semis, they'll drop down to D3 in 26.
like it or not, VDL in D3 is how the procedure played out.
and actually looking at it closer: fairfield would've been the first school into D2. so they were the D2/D3 bubble. VDL was the 2nd largest school in the D3 bracket.
Check again. CB’s first year in D2 was a second round list to Antelope. Second year finals and this year a second round lost to Atwater.
oops... 2020 D3 champ
but point remains, the criteria to get moved down is to miss the semis 2 years in a row...
that has not been met.
The criteria to get moved back to your original/enrollment division is ridiculous. The rule hurt public schools for the success they had with players that are no longer on site. Students/players now at those sites were in elementary school when those team were having high level success. Antelope will never going to be a below average team cannot make it to at least can’t win a first round game, but it’s very rare to get that once in a lifetime talent like we had with Jzaniya Harriel to push us over the top.
i don't think it's ridiculous. I would think the section's reply is, we don't want to overreact either way. The ultimate goal is to get the best teams playing each other, likely in D1, but only after showing sustained success, not a 1 year or 2 year wonder. Heck, I think it took St Marys about 10 years to get to D1. But at the same time, one year not making the semis is not a good reason to drop really good programs back down...
Antelope has been very good since 2015. They made the D2 finals 5 out of 7 years (one semi, one 2nd round). Won 2 of them. After they went champ, finals, champ, finals, they got bumped to D1, which was last year. first year in D1, made the semis where they beat oak ridge and lost to st marys, and this year, lost to a good oak ridge team by 1 in the 2nd round. They will stay in D1 next year. And rightfully so. If they mlss the semis next year, then they can be dropped back to D2.
It's just that D1 is so loaded... so once you've made the climb, you face a huge challenge, and winning a championship every year stops being a given.
That being said, I think as long as public schools have some form of open enrollment, then they can compete with the privates. It takes work: good coaching, admin support, and a legit youth program... at some point, like folsom, the athletes start coming to you. And in girls basketball, it only takes one great player to make a team a championship contender. Great player in a great system can vault a program into a perennial contender, maybe even a powerhouse.
as i alluded to in my prior post, i don't think folsom is great because they are big.. I think they are great because wolking built a great program, and he seems to be a pretty damn good coach.
folsom has always been big.. they weren't good until he got there.
