Rams look to be playing very well right now.
Amaya Oliver has 18 points to lead six Rams in double figures.
Amaya Oliver has 18 points to lead six Rams in double figures.
St Mary’s Stockton beats Miramonte 86-49
- Thread starter Streak One
- Start date
When you don't come ready to play at SMS, the outcome is pretty predictable.
We can be pretty good -- as we were against O'Dowd -- but we don't have enough raw talent or athleticism to deal with a team like SMS without playing at close to our best. And of course SMS did everything right to keep us from playing well, hitting shots, playing with aggression and poise, and obviously, clearly being the better team.
One dark spot: Brooklyn Perry went down with a non-contact knee injury in the third quarter and after several minutes, was helped off the court. Here's hoping it's not what it looked like ...
We can be pretty good -- as we were against O'Dowd -- but we don't have enough raw talent or athleticism to deal with a team like SMS without playing at close to our best. And of course SMS did everything right to keep us from playing well, hitting shots, playing with aggression and poise, and obviously, clearly being the better team.
One dark spot: Brooklyn Perry went down with a non-contact knee injury in the third quarter and after several minutes, was helped off the court. Here's hoping it's not what it looked like ...
Based on Miramonte handling Bishop O'Dowd and Bishop O'Dowd beating St Mary's I assumed this would be a much tighter game. I didn't think Miramonte would win but I did think it would be within 20 points.
Hoping Brooklyn's knee is just banged up and not really injured.
Hoping Brooklyn's knee is just banged up and not really injured.
wow looks like somebody tanked, Some Cal stars inner office scheming.
Just Sayin
Just Sayin
How was it Cal Stars innner office scheming that caused the outcome of the game? I think ClayK hit it on the head. In order for Miramonte to have had a shot they would have to play a perfect game. But in reality SMS appeared to play the perfect game so hence the outcome. I would have thought it would have been closer however games like this happen and the match ups make the match. SMS is one of the best teams in Norcal in my opinion.
Its a very convenient time to take a big loss.. might not be a complete tank, but once you knew it wasn't going to happen, not a bad time to let it get worse.
People will point to this game when its time to determine Open status. The game in Los Altos Hills on Saturday should be interesting.
People will point to this game when its time to determine Open status. The game in Los Altos Hills on Saturday should be interesting.
I was at the game and SMS is just a difficult matchup for Miramonte. The Mats were hitting their shot when they could get open. But that was the problem, they seldom were open. The Rams defense and speed was just too much for the Mats. I would agree that it would take a great game by Miramonte to beat SMS. It's not that they are that much better but they just do not match up well against them.
Also the word after the game was that Perry's injury was not her knee but her ankle. That has to be good news right there. What kind of ankle injury I do not hear, but it rules out an ACL or MCL and that by itself is good news.
Also the word after the game was that Perry's injury was not her knee but her ankle. That has to be good news right there. What kind of ankle injury I do not hear, but it rules out an ACL or MCL and that by itself is good news.
I completeley agree on the first paragraph. Styles make fights and this is a tough matchup for Miramonte. The spread was very surprising, but St. Mary's is a team that can make a game ugly in a hurry. The Pinewood game will be interesting.
Agreed...but while the score is surprising it's funny how everyone is beating up on each other. SMS lost to BOD, MM beats BOD, SMS beats MM. A lot has to do with matchups and maybe MM just doesn't match up well with SMS. Needless to say I think Norcal, especially in D1 and open will be a war.
MM is very well coached and never caught off guard. They are prepared for every team they face.
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I wish we had tanked ...
Here's the thing: There are six NCS teams that seem bound for the NCS Open. Losing to SMS doesn't really affect Miramonte's place in the Open, but it does impact the seeding. And because Miramonte is not a designated league champion (SJND is) nor a league champion (not in a league), the third and fourth seeds are pretty much meaningless because Miramonte will be on the road regardless.
So the best path for Miramonte is to be a top two seed (with a first-round bye), and for that, a win over SMS and/or Pinewood was a necessity (so is the Oakland Tech game, but in a different way).
With that big loss, though, it may be hard to be a top two seed. A close loss would have been better, but now Miramonte needs two big wins to have a shot.
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As for Perry, her knee was iced after the game, not her ankle, and when she went down she grabbed her knee.
I hope I'm wrong ...
Here's the thing: There are six NCS teams that seem bound for the NCS Open. Losing to SMS doesn't really affect Miramonte's place in the Open, but it does impact the seeding. And because Miramonte is not a designated league champion (SJND is) nor a league champion (not in a league), the third and fourth seeds are pretty much meaningless because Miramonte will be on the road regardless.
So the best path for Miramonte is to be a top two seed (with a first-round bye), and for that, a win over SMS and/or Pinewood was a necessity (so is the Oakland Tech game, but in a different way).
With that big loss, though, it may be hard to be a top two seed. A close loss would have been better, but now Miramonte needs two big wins to have a shot.
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As for Perry, her knee was iced after the game, not her ankle, and when she went down she grabbed her knee.
I hope I'm wrong ...
sorry to hear about Perry.
. So even in the open, they're going to honor league champs? Seems like the open division is a whole new can of worms and they'd see according to the BEST teams, not necessarily league champs.
sorry to hear about Perry.
Exactly. I was surprised to hear that. It should be enough that they get an automatic bid to NorCal. And MM’s league (that they would have played in) is so weak they’d have won it going away.
How did Carondelet get the "anomaly" status AND designated league champ automatic bid to NCS. I would think MM would/could/should have gotten the same treatment. If memory serves correctly, Berkeley in it's former glory, also had this in their favor.
Unfortunately, you might be right. I heard it from a player and that might not be the best source.
So when teams leave a league, they have to make a deal ... and for a lot of leagues, one of the issues is that schools don't want to have to try to schedule games during league play.
In football, for example, De La Salle has or had some kind of agreement that it would play five teams in its old league every year.
For Carondelet, the EBAL schools were concerned about, or didn't want to do the work to get, the two games they would lose when Carondelet left. So Carondelet, in exchange for playing each team one time, got to be the designated league champion. (This means, of course, that San Ramon Valley or Cal won't get it, and conceivably could be driving a significant distance to play a lower seed in the first round that happens to be a league champ.)
When Miramonte left, the deal was that Miramonte was not required to schedule any games against league teams but would not get the designated league champ title. Prior to the Open, this was not a big deal, as presumably a first-round D1 or D2 game on the road would not be a huge disadvantage even if it happened -- and with a 16-team bracket, the likelihood of a low seed also being a league champ wasn't that great.
But the Open shifted that landscape, and that was an unintended consequence. The Open will be tinkered with, presumably, in the offseason, and it would make sense if getting rid of that first-round advantage for league champs were one of the tweaks.
In football, for example, De La Salle has or had some kind of agreement that it would play five teams in its old league every year.
For Carondelet, the EBAL schools were concerned about, or didn't want to do the work to get, the two games they would lose when Carondelet left. So Carondelet, in exchange for playing each team one time, got to be the designated league champion. (This means, of course, that San Ramon Valley or Cal won't get it, and conceivably could be driving a significant distance to play a lower seed in the first round that happens to be a league champ.)
When Miramonte left, the deal was that Miramonte was not required to schedule any games against league teams but would not get the designated league champ title. Prior to the Open, this was not a big deal, as presumably a first-round D1 or D2 game on the road would not be a huge disadvantage even if it happened -- and with a 16-team bracket, the likelihood of a low seed also being a league champ wasn't that great.
But the Open shifted that landscape, and that was an unintended consequence. The Open will be tinkered with, presumably, in the offseason, and it would make sense if getting rid of that first-round advantage for league champs were one of the tweaks.
Sooooo...
Example:
St Joe's goes into Odowds league next year and comes in 2nd(makes the NCS OPEN and gets a high seed) but still gets a 1st round home game against league champion Salesian or Heritage or CN?
So no advantage for a league champion anymore..2nd place team gets the home game?
Seems to me the only team with a disadvantage is MM in the current format. What if MM falls off and stops being an OPEN team in the future? Now weve changed the league champion rule for 1 team that's not even an OPEN team anymore. Unintended consequences no matter how you do it apparently.
Example:
St Joe's goes into Odowds league next year and comes in 2nd(makes the NCS OPEN and gets a high seed) but still gets a 1st round home game against league champion Salesian or Heritage or CN?
So no advantage for a league champion anymore..2nd place team gets the home game?
Seems to me the only team with a disadvantage is MM in the current format. What if MM falls off and stops being an OPEN team in the future? Now weve changed the league champion rule for 1 team that's not even an OPEN team anymore. Unintended consequences no matter how you do it apparently.
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It's an interesting dilemma ... I've never really been a fan of the league champ getting a first-round home game, because if postseason reflects competitive equity, it should be about how good the teams are, not how good their leagues are.
For example, I remember one year when a team was league champ of the four-team Humboldt Del Norte league, and got a home game against a top seed that was co-champ and didn't get the designation because the tie was broken by which team won the last game between the two co-champs. As often happens, the home team won each of the games between the co-champs, so essentially the first-round home game was decided by the way the schedule was made up.
And for those leagues with tournaments that designate the champ, you could have a team with one or two losses all year lose a tournament title game and be on the road for the first round against a team from a mediocre league.
Then again, there is something to be said for honoring league play.
As for changing the Open rule just for Miramonte, which will likely not be an Open team next year, it still makes sense if SJND is in O'Dowd's league, say, or any time two Open teams are in the same league. If they are co-champs, then the league must designate a champion based on some kind of off-court tiebreaker, and it could be that the lower seed gets the champion designation because of a committee decision or even a coin flip. I would rather see true seeding in the Open ...
In truth, though, it's not that critical at this level unless the boys' team also has a home game the same night. Then there is a significant home court advantage. For most girls' games, even in postseason, the crowd is not that big a factor.
For example, I remember one year when a team was league champ of the four-team Humboldt Del Norte league, and got a home game against a top seed that was co-champ and didn't get the designation because the tie was broken by which team won the last game between the two co-champs. As often happens, the home team won each of the games between the co-champs, so essentially the first-round home game was decided by the way the schedule was made up.
And for those leagues with tournaments that designate the champ, you could have a team with one or two losses all year lose a tournament title game and be on the road for the first round against a team from a mediocre league.
Then again, there is something to be said for honoring league play.
As for changing the Open rule just for Miramonte, which will likely not be an Open team next year, it still makes sense if SJND is in O'Dowd's league, say, or any time two Open teams are in the same league. If they are co-champs, then the league must designate a champion based on some kind of off-court tiebreaker, and it could be that the lower seed gets the champion designation because of a committee decision or even a coin flip. I would rather see true seeding in the Open ...
In truth, though, it's not that critical at this level unless the boys' team also has a home game the same night. Then there is a significant home court advantage. For most girls' games, even in postseason, the crowd is not that big a factor.
The league champion rule is odd to me. It only affects a couple of games because usually league champions are higher seeds to begin with, but when it does, it seems unfair to a team that is better and comes from a tougher league.
The genesis of this rule goes back to the days when only league champs made the playoffs. Once at large teams were added, this rule was put in to still reward teams that won their league. Now that virtually all decent teams go to the playoffs, it’s kind of a silly rule that really only helps teams from weak leagues who would not be good enough to justify a home game based on their body of work.
The silly part is that you can designate a league champion without having to play in the league or technically win the league.
it's interesting, Clay, that you see the crowd as being the primary home-court advantage. in the girls' game, "crowds" are small, and their volume is disproportionately appropriated by knucklehead complainers who think that every call against their team is a crime against humanity. now, you've spent years on the sideline and you have a much better feel for the crowd's effect on a team than I do.
I've always guessed that familiarity with the physical aspects of the venue was important, from rims to background behind the basket to sideline space. travel is also a consideration.
and league champ extras don't seem to make sense in the new era of competitive equity. most leagues have developed rivalries that would prevent teams from losing interest. I came in when MM/Campo/Acalanes was a big deal. MM has pulled away from that field, but I miss the rivalry. and all things are impermanent.
I've always guessed that familiarity with the physical aspects of the venue was important, from rims to background behind the basket to sideline space. travel is also a consideration.
and league champ extras don't seem to make sense in the new era of competitive equity. most leagues have developed rivalries that would prevent teams from losing interest. I came in when MM/Campo/Acalanes was a big deal. MM has pulled away from that field, but I miss the rivalry. and all things are impermanent.
Home court advantage is composed of a lot of things, but a big study showed that the advantage is really the officials, and the human desire to be liked. Take away loud crowds urging the officials to call things a certain way and the home court advantage disappears at the highest levels, which is why I said that having a doubleheader with the boys is a true home court advantage.
Now a long bus ride is a disadvantage, and so is an unusual court, and those should not be discounted. But a game in the Bay Area in a modern gym doesn't really bring either of those aspects into play, I don't think.
Now a long bus ride is a disadvantage, and so is an unusual court, and those should not be discounted. But a game in the Bay Area in a modern gym doesn't really bring either of those aspects into play, I don't think.
Just play all the games at one neutral site and this entire convo becomes moot.
Perhaps the NCS does that in the future...
Perhaps the NCS does that in the future...
so maybe basketball squads should include a mixed group (men, women, kids, adults) of Designated Complainers, who attend away games. no uniforms, but a varsity letter awarded at season's end. size of contingent depends on expected opponent fan turnout, may vary from game to game. sit not on bench but in stands. can warm up during team warmups. by yelling, of course.
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As a volunteer who has spent many a game working a scorer's table with the opposing teams fans sitting behind me in the stands. I can attest some schools are already doing that. They call it the visiting parent section.
Speaking of "an unusual court," isn't it long past time for O'Dowd's donors to come up with funds to build the school a modern gym? The Dragons' pathetic closet hasn't changed since it was built in the early 1950s. It's almost as though Frank Sobrero and Dick Fagliano are still there in their stained Converse canvas high-tops. Good lord.
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LOL you're absolutely right. For the LIFE of me, I don't know how they are in compliance to host games. There is NO way they can hold as many as they claim they can. crazy! lol
And you can’t even see much of the court from many of those seats. You’ve gotta love the scorer’s table up in the rafters above the players.
CCS plays Open games at a neutral site. But CCS is also a smaller section (geographically). So maybe it's a travel issue?
Is there any truth to the recent report that much of Hickory High's home schedule from "Hoosiers" was filmed at the creaking B.O. barn?
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It's not just the final at Santa Clara -- all of the CCS Open games are played on a neutral court.
Someone call Gene Hackman. He's needed in Oakland.
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