The WCAL Mystique

[Norcal_Fan]

I noted the SI win for Berkeley! The thing about the WCAL is unless you have some experienced players (SENIORS) or the talent and are ready to play a tough pre-season schedule you shouldn't load up because the league is tough as it is. Every team in the WCAL year in and out is a top 25 team. So when you look at it in league alone they are playing 5 top 25 teams. The only top 25 team in the EBAL that is a top 25 team is BOD. Otherwise you run into the issue that SHC had this year. Rebuilding playing a tough schedule and missing the playoffs because the league is tougher than any other league. BOD could not win a game in the preseason and know they are going to make the playoffs because the league isn't tough.

Another thing you have to take into consideration is the familiarity of the teams in the league. It's easy to sneak up on a team in the pre-season that doesn't know you inside and out. Same way Dublin snuck up on Cardinal Newman or Oakland beating BOD. Let's also look at how many kids play college basketball from these leagues. How many kids from the EBAL are playing college ball right now? The WCAL has at least 20.

Mitty and Sacred heart have more kids playing in college than the rest of the league combined. So that's kind of a silly comparison. My contention is that THIS year, WCAL was overrated. You talk about top 25 Rankings, look who WCAL schools played in preseason (ranked)

Presentation: only played Miramonte and st. pats
Valley Christian: Played Cal
SI: Menlo,
SF: Pinewood.

Amador: Bear Creek
Dublin: Pinewood, Heritage, Cardinal Newman, Harvard Westlake
Cal: Valley Christian, Antelope, SMS
SRV: Bear Creek,

What I'm saying is how do we know they're top 25 if they don't go out and play anyone OUTSIDE the WCAL? They have a great rep, hardware to show they're the boss of Norcal, but aside from the top 2 teams, what else is there?

 

[observer22]

The only top 25 team in the EBAL that is a top 25 team is BOD.

BOD isn’t an EBAL team. Think Carondelet, SRV, Cal High, Dublin, Amador Valley.

 

[CityBoy415]

Mitty and Sacred heart have more kids playing in college than the rest of the league combined. So that's kind of a silly comparison. My contention is that THIS year, WCAL was overrated. You talk about top 25 Rankings, look who WCAL schools played in preseason (ranked)

Presentation: only played Miramonte and st. pats
Valley Christian: Played Cal
SI: Menlo,
SF: Pinewood.

Amador: Bear Creek
Dublin: Pinewood, Heritage, Cardinal Newman, Harvard Westlake
Cal: Valley Christian, Antelope, SMS
SRV: Bear Creek,

What I'm saying is how do we know they're top 25 if they don't go out and play anyone OUTSIDE the WCAL? They have a great rep, hardware to show they're the boss of Norcal, but aside from the top 2 teams, what else is there?

Ok look at this year. The WCAL has more kids going to play college ball next year than the EBAL. Now your switching leagues on me but that's ok. I think it's unfair to just look at the WCAL teams pre-season schedule and not consider the teams in the league. UNLESS your going to take into consideration the soft league schedule these other leagues have. Unless your Mitty or SHC you are not usually guaranteed to finish .500 in league which means you have to play a pre-season schedule that will give you a chance to make the playoffs. That's what your not getting.

Let's be real. BOD, C-Let, Salesian, St. Joes, SPSV, and MM should all be in the same league. Maybe excluding MM since they are public but I guarantee if these teams were in the same league that pre-season schedule wouldn't be as strong.

 

[Norcal_Fan]

Ok look at this year. The WCAL has more kids going to play college ball next year than the EBAL. Now your switching leagues on me but that's ok. I think it's unfair to just look at the WCAL teams pre-season schedule and not consider the teams in the league. UNLESS your going to take into consideration the soft league schedule these other leagues have. Unless your Mitty or SHC you are not usually guaranteed to finish .500 in league which means you have to play a pre-season schedule that will give you a chance to make the playoffs. That's what your not getting.

YOU just proved my point. It's unfair to just look at WCAL pre-season schedule and not consider teams in the leagues AND it's unfair to look at the weaker EBAL league teams (top to bottom) and not consider the teams they play in the preseason. ITS THE SAME THING. But because WCAL teams are ALWAYS ranked higher because of Mitty and SHC (my assertion) they finish the preseason higher with an unblemished record-and they should . WCAL IS TOUGH LEAGUE.

 

[stepslide]

Just a thought
Everyone below Mitty in the WCAL in most years can't go out and play alot of the traditionally strong teams in CA/beyond or go to tournaments with strong teams because they might end up like SHC and not qualify for postseason. No team other than Mitty can guarantee a .500 record in that league.
Kudos to SHC for scheduling a tough preseason this past season, but also it is a huge risk. No other top team in Norcal outside of WCAL has to worry about that .500 rule affecting them, therefore it isn't fair to compare pre-season schedules of WCAL teams to other ranked Norcal teams who don't have to worry about finishing .500 in league.

 

[letsski]

Just a thought
Everyone below Mitty in the WCAL in most years can't go out and play alot of the traditionally strong teams in CA/beyond or go to tournaments with strong teams because they might end of like SHC and not qualify for postseason. No team other than Mitty can guarantee a .500 record in that league.
Kudos to SHC for scheduling a tough preseason this past season, but also it is a huge risk. No other top team in Norcal outside of WCAL has to worry about that .500 rule affecting them, therefore it isn't fair to compare pre-season schedules of WCAL teams to other ranked Norcal teams who don't have to worry about finishing .500 in league.

Very good point!

 

[keepitreal.32]

Ok, so which league in NorCal can send three or more teams out to play the top teams in CA and be successful most years?

 

[colhenrylives]

BOD isn’t an EBAL team. Think Carondelet, SRV, Cal High, Dublin, Amador Valley.

Doesn't Carondelet play an independent schedule? Or is my memory collapsing like a bunch of bad broccoli?

 

[colhenrylives]

How about an ECAL (a sort of rebirth of the old CAL in the East Bay?): O'Dowd, Salesian, St. Joseph's/Notre Dame, Carondelet, St. Patrick's/St. Vincent's and St. Mary's (B). Toss in St. Mary's (S) for good measure and you would have a league that could rival, and might well surpass, the current WCAL.

 

[Norcal_Fan]

How about an ECAL (a sort of rebirth of the old CAL in the East Bay?): O'Dowd, Salesian, St. Joseph's/Notre Dame, Carondelet, St. Patrick's/St. Vincent's and St. Mary's (B). Toss in St. Mary's (S) for good measure and you would have a league that could rival, and might well surpass, the current WCAL.

I've heard that they've tried to get that league going again :BOD, Salesian, SJND, CLet SMB, SPSV, and Moreau but they're compiling about travel. I've always though that WCAL has the same, if not MORE travel time with teams going to and from South San Jose/Mt. View to SF. But that would be an amazing league and while I would give the nod to Mitty year in year out, the rest of the teams would be very competitive. Maybe next year in the realignment year that's moved into the discussion.

@keepitreal.32 Again, I don't think that any league has had the success that WCAL has had top to bottom. But then again, when teams are in an "open" division, logic would tell me that if they lose in the first round, putting them in anything below D2 is a travesty-and there is some WCAL teams that were placed in D3 (and below) that had a distinct advantage going to the norcal and state finals. How can you be an "open" team and be in anything below D2?

 

[colhenrylives]

I've heard that they've tried to get that league going again :BOD, Salesian, SJND, CLet SMB, SPSV, and Moreau but they're compiling about travel. I've always though that WCAL has the same, if not MORE travel time with teams going to and from South San Jose/Mt. View to SF. But that would be an amazing league and while I would give the nod to Mitty year in year out, the rest of the teams would be very competitive. Maybe next year in the realignment year that's moved into the discussion.

@keepitreal.32 Again, I don't think that any league has had the success that WCAL has had top to bottom. But then again, when teams are in an "open" division, logic would tell me that if they lose in the first round, putting them in anything below D2 is a travesty-and there is some WCAL teams that were placed in D3 (and below) that had a distinct advantage going to the norcal and state finals. How can you be an "open" team and be in anything below D2?

Moreau. Good addition. Thanks.

 

[keepitreal.32]

I've heard that they've tried to get that league going again :BOD, Salesian, SJND, CLet SMB, SPSV, and Moreau but they're compiling about travel. I've always though that WCAL has the same, if not MORE travel time with teams going to and from South San Jose/Mt. View to SF. But that would be an amazing league and while I would give the nod to Mitty year in year out, the rest of the teams would be very competitive. Maybe next year in the realignment year that's moved into the discussion.

@keepitreal.32 Again, I don't think that any league has had the success that WCAL has had top to bottom. But then again, when teams are in an "open" division, logic would tell me that if they lose in the first round, putting them in anything below D2 is a travesty-and there is some WCAL teams that were placed in D3 (and below) that had a distinct advantage going to the norcal and state finals. How can you be an "open" team and be in anything below D2?

I agree with you about “open” teams. If I’m not mistaken most of the WCAL teams end up in CCS Open because the teams from other leagues wanted a shot at a CCS title and in exchange all Open teams could advance to NorCal. I could be wrong.

But I do think top two Open teams stay in NorCal Open the rest go to D1. Now if NCS and SJS would set up an Open Division . If any 3rd place teams were very competitive, they can go open too. Or if NS, SF or OAK section have a candidate there is room for them.

 

[observer22]

Doesn't Carondelet play an independent schedule? Or is my memory collapsing like a bunch of bad broccoli?

Yes, in basketball this year and last, they played an independent schedule. But they’re still full members in all other sports and get the league’s automatic bid and league champion designation for NCS playoffs. Plus, they have still played the other EBAL teams once each the last 2 seasons.

Not sure if they’re still going to be independent next season. It would be in everyone’s best interest if they drop the independent status for next year and see how it goes without this current crop of seniors.

 

[colhenrylives]

Yes, in basketball this year and last, they played an independent schedule. But they’re still full members in all other sports and get the league’s automatic bid and league champion designation for NCS playoffs. Plus, they have still played the other EBAL teams once each the last 2 seasons.

Not sure if they’re still going to be independent next season. It would be in everyone’s best interest if they drop the independent status for next year and see how it goes without this current crop of seniors.

Is Miramonte also an independent? Anyone else? Thanks.

 

[ClayK]

Miramonte is an independent and doesn't get the automatic bid. Miramonte also has no obligation to play any league teams. St. Mary's of Stockton is an independent in basketball, and there's been talk that O'Dowd might move in that direction.

One thing we tend to forget is that leagues are for all sports, and so if you have a league that extends from Vallejo to Hayward, you have to get your baseball team from one end of the East Bay to the other at rush hour ... not to mention cross country and everything else.

Transportation budgets are huge, as private schools have to rent buses to get their teams around, so combining the school time lost and expense of renting buses, any farflung league is going to have to be justified in a lot of different ways to be created.

 

[observer22]

Clay, is there any reason these “independent” teams couldn’t establish their own quasi independent league? This would just be for girls basketball, and not involving boys baseball, lacrosse or any other sports. Or would that be too much for the section or league brass who are very territorial to begin with, fearing an eventual dismantling of the existing section systems?

 

[ClayK]

In a sense, that's probably what would happen ... since it's hard for independents to schedule games in January and February, when league play has begun, then there's a lot of logic to what you say.

If SJND and O'Dowd, say, both left their leagues, you'd have Carondelet, Miramonte, SJND and O'Dowd, which would conceivably be three or even six games for each team if they played each other.

I know we're trying to set something up with Carondelet right now, and could play SMS as well.

 

[colhenrylives]

Makes a lot of sense.

 

[observer22]

Yes, in basketball this year and last, they played an independent schedule. But they’re still full members in all other sports and get the league’s automatic bid and league champion designation for NCS playoffs. Plus, they have still played the other EBAL teams once each the last 2 seasons.

Not sure if they’re still going to be independent next season. It would be in everyone’s best interest if they drop the independent status for next year and see how it goes without this current crop of seniors.

It looks like they also received EBAL all league awards, so yeah I would say Carondelet is considered an EBAL team even with their independent status.

EBAL All League Awards:

http://www.theebal.com/2018-girls-basketball.html

EBAL
GIRLS BASKETBALL
MVP: Paige Gerhart

1st Team
Paige Gerhart San Ramon Valley
Emily Tincher Amador Valley
Mele Finau Dublin
Ali Bamberger Carondelet
Audrey Moulton California

2nd Team
Erica Miller Carondelet
Erica Adams California
Emily Howie Carondelet
Brann Bruschke San Ramon Valley
Grace Rogers Monte Vista

Honorable Mention
Audrey Bayston San Ramon Valley
Lan Wenger Monte Vista
Julia Balestreri Amador Valley
Madison Silva Livermore
Artaisia Finley Livermore
Sarah Brans Dublin
Amanda Price Granada
Maddie Braswell Granada
Alex Brown Carondelet
Hope Alley Foothill
Katelyn Jensen Foothill
Kelly Tumlin California
Megan Zink Dougherty Valley
Rianna Lee Dougherty Valley

 

[Winning Is Fun]

You can put all the tough teams you want on your preseason schedule, but if you can't beat them then why should you be ranked higher? Aptos had a tough schedule. Should they be ranked higher? You keep forgetting to mention SI beat Menlo by double digits twice, one time each during the pre and post season. Sf beat CN on their home court and probably could have beat Bear Creek if they didn't get in foul trouble.

Playing in the WCAL is tough enough each year. There's no need to put more than three other good teams on your schedule. You need to build on team confidence before you start league. I can't blame any of those coaches for lining up mostly average teams.

 

[MLW12]

Now let me ask you a serious question. Do you really think Mt Eden is a better team than SHC? Looking at their schedule the toughest team they played was BOD. You gave the love because the work was already done but if a team doesn't have arguably their best player for the majority of the season and still competes with the top tier teams why wouldn't they get any love? Do you think if Mt. Eden with their team played the same schedule as SHC they would win the same amount of games?

We can't talk about what the EBAL used to be with out talking about what the WCAL used to be. I don't think any league has 2 teams as decorated as Mitty and SHC over the last (let's keep it recent) 15 years. Top to bottom the WCAL is a beast. St. Francis was second to last in league and would be no less than second in the EBAL. I might be able to make that argument with any team in the WCAL. That's on ALL levels lower included. I hope someone reading this thread can put it together.

Playoffs:

BOD aside being the only team in this league that can compete with the WCAL teams.....

Piedmont lost to Lowell who SHC had to stop scheduling because the average margin of victory was 40+.

Mt. Eden lost to James Logan who wouldn't stand a chance against any team in the WCAL.

Berkeley was young but decent. They beat a young SI team which was probably their best win on the season.

Do we even need to discuss Alameda and Amador Valley against any WCAL teams?

Now let me ask you a serious question. Do you really think Mt Eden is a better team than SHC? Looking at their schedule the toughest team they played was BOD. You gave the love because the work was already done but if a team doesn't have arguably their best player for the majority of the season and still competes with the top tier teams why wouldn't they get any love? Do you think if Mt. Eden with their team played the same schedule as SHC they would win the same amount of games?

We can't talk about what the EBAL used to be with out talking about what the WCAL used to be. I don't think any league has 2 teams as decorated as Mitty and SHC over the last (let's keep it recent) 15 years. Top to bottom the WCAL is a beast. St. Francis was second to last in league and would be no less than second in the EBAL. I might be able to make that argument with any team in the WCAL. That's on ALL levels lower included. I hope someone reading this thread can put it together.

Playoffs:

BOD aside being the only team in this league that can compete with the WCAL teams.....

Piedmont lost to Lowell who SHC had to stop scheduling because the average margin of victory was 40+.

Mt. Eden lost to James Logan who wouldn't stand a chance against any team in the WCAL.

Berkeley was young but decent. They beat a young SI team which was probably their best win on the season.

Do we even need to discuss Alameda and Amador Valley against any WCAL teams?

I don't agree with you, all the teams in our league would compete. WCAL is a great league but so is WACC. Mitty was 10-0 but everyone else was below average and our league was similar with BOD 9-1 and everyone was average. EBAL is solid too but WACC would compete with them too. Our league is getting better, we have great coaches along with some great student-athletes. Don't sleep.

 

[colhenrylives]

The WCAL and the WBAL are extremely tough top-to-bottom. Those two leagues are a nightmare for public school foes. The overall records speak for themselves. So does their schools' amazing collective run of state titles, close to 30 over the last 30 years. No other NorCal leagues are even close to that CIF statistic.

 

[Norcal_Fan]

The WCAL and the WBAL are extremely tough top-to-bottom. Those two leagues are a nightmare for public school foes. The overall records speak for themselves. So does their schools' amazing collective run of state titles, close to 30 over the last 30 years. No other NorCal leagues are even close to that CIF statistic.

The Gold Coast league with Windward, Siera Canyon and Brentwood is a pretty tough league top to bottom. Statistically, WCAL and WBAL have been great, but we're talking year in year out, other leagues are just as competitive.

 

[colhenrylives]

The Gold Coast league with Windward, Siera Canyon and Brentwood is a pretty tough league top to bottom. Statistically, WCAL and WBAL have been great, but we're talking year in year out, other leagues are just as competitive.

Not in NorCal. Sorry. The 30-year record is clear. Close to 30 CIF hoops titles stand alone. SoCal is an entirely different kettle of fish. Can't speak for the Trinity League and the others. Need considerable research for that. But NorCal is a no-brainer. Numbers don't lie.

 

[Norcal_Fan]

Not in NorCal. Sorry. The 30-year record is clear. Close to 30 CIF hoops titles stand alone. SoCal is an entirely different kettle of fish. Can't speak for the Trinity League and the others. Need considerable research for that. But NorCal is a no-brainer. Numbers don't lie.

Yes, you're right. My point is this. In ANY given year, up or down, WCAL will automatically get teams in the CCS open and get automatic berths to Norcals. Some years, definitely deserving and in others, overrated.

 

[OnBall8]

Yes, you're right. My point is this. In ANY given year, up or down, WCAL will automatically get teams in the CCS open and get automatic berths to Norcals. Some years, definitely deserving and in others, overrated.

Who else should have been given an opportunity to play in the CCS open this year?

 

[colhenrylives]

Who else should have been given an opportunity to play in the CCS open this year?

The WBAL Upper Division. Menlo School, Eastside Prep, Woodside Priory, Sacred Heart Prep and two Notre Dames. Oh, yes, and Pinewood too. Not a bad collection. Not bad at all. Only the WCAL is just a tick better overall.

 

[OnBall8]

The WBAL Upper Division. Menlo School, Eastside Prep, Woodside Priory, Sacred Heart Prep and two Notre Dames. Oh, yes, and Pinewood too. Not a bad collection. Not bad at all. Only the WCAL is just a tick better overall.

I was backing your point of the wcal AND wbal... Not a bad collection at all. More top heavy than the wcal but not bad at all

 

[colhenrylives]

It's always something of a surprise when folks forget about the WBAL's Upper Division. Plop it in the middle of the Sacramento or Walnut Creek or Hayward areas and you would have a dominant private/parochial outfit running rampant.

 

[OnBall8]

It's always something of a surprise when folks forget about the WBAL's Upper Division. Plop it in the middle of the Sacramento or Walnut Creek or Hayward areas and you would have a dominant private/parochial outfit running rampant.

It'll be interesting moving forward though...

no more Donovan at ESCP. That in itself leaves a ton of question marks there.

I didn't think Woodside Priory has lived up to the potential it showed a few years ago. Can they make the next step and make CCS Open? Or are they content with hanging D5 banners when the better teams get pulled to open?

Pinewood loses 2 D1 players.. both players were not only great offensive players in that system but players that could defend the post. Looks like decker will make this team go moving forward but who defends the paint? They had a freshman with some size that very rarely saw the floor this year. And a rumored transfer of a 6+ footer. Will they fit doc's system? Will doc change his system to fit his personnel? Big time questions moving forward for PW in order to stay elite (norcal open elite, not ccs elite)