Predicting Section Finials and Champions
- Thread starter RespectBBGame
- Start date
In the past, the NCS if you won your section the 1st time, gave you the option of going OPEN or not even if you were OPEN caliber. A couple of years back the Monte Vista boys were an OPEN team and they opted to stay in D1 (and went on to win the D1 state championship). Do they give 1st time good season teams the option to NOT go open in other sections also? If so, that may come into play with Antelope if they win their section.....that's if the SJS gives them the option.
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Teams can opt in if they don't qualify, but there is no opting out. One of the qualifications relates to being in the sections finals or Open division a number of times in the recent past.
I don't know if Antelope qualifies per the CIF Open guidelines (too lazy to look them up), but if they do there is no opting out. The Monte Vista boys 2 years ago did not qualify, and they did not opt up so they remained in D1 and ended up winning their first state championship.
And just because you may opt in, there is no guarantee they will take you, as there is a limit of 8 teams total and 4 per section. But I suspect if someone opts in that did not qualify and another teams lets it be known they don't want in, they may make some allowances as long as they fill the bracket. It's my understanding that they want to fill the Open bracket with 8 teams in both boys and girls and both NorCal and SoCal after not doing so the 1st year or 2.
I don't know if Antelope qualifies per the CIF Open guidelines (too lazy to look them up), but if they do there is no opting out. The Monte Vista boys 2 years ago did not qualify, and they did not opt up so they remained in D1 and ended up winning their first state championship.
And just because you may opt in, there is no guarantee they will take you, as there is a limit of 8 teams total and 4 per section. But I suspect if someone opts in that did not qualify and another teams lets it be known they don't want in, they may make some allowances as long as they fill the bracket. It's my understanding that they want to fill the Open bracket with 8 teams in both boys and girls and both NorCal and SoCal after not doing so the 1st year or 2.
I don't think the commissioners will put any team in the Open that didn't play for a Section title. It's possible, but unlikely ...
Good teams can win in various ways. They can start slow and come back, they can start fast, they can win the in the second quarter, they can win down the stretch. In fact, I would argue that a good team not only can win in a multitude of ways, but must win in a multitude of ways. It's a long season, it's a long playoff run, and every team will be tested in different ways at different times.
Good teams can win in various ways. They can start slow and come back, they can start fast, they can win the in the second quarter, they can win down the stretch. In fact, I would argue that a good team not only can win in a multitude of ways, but must win in a multitude of ways. It's a long season, it's a long playoff run, and every team will be tested in different ways at different times.
Clay
So you saying if a teams wins a section title the qualify for the Open and it's up to the committee to put which team the feel best fit the field in the open???? Does that mean no matter what the record is or would they take the team with the better record? Does a team get penalized for play high strength of schedule ???? Can you answer some of these for those that want to know ? I remember a team the first year of the open was penalized by blowing teams out and had to play against the team that won the State Open Division that year.
So you saying if a teams wins a section title the qualify for the Open and it's up to the committee to put which team the feel best fit the field in the open???? Does that mean no matter what the record is or would they take the team with the better record? Does a team get penalized for play high strength of schedule ???? Can you answer some of these for those that want to know ? I remember a team the first year of the open was penalized by blowing teams out and had to play against the team that won the State Open Division that year.
Northbaybbguru
Back in December you counted BC out of the open after Miramonte served BC 96-52 !!! Now your putting BC back into the open division ??? Now the question I have for you ??? if Cardinal Newman upsets Salesian ? Is Cardinal Newman in the open ??? Because Salesian is going open regardless of the outcome !?!
I got to give BC some love.
Its definitely a marathon and not a sprint, and BC has put together a good 2nd half of the season.
Assuming they finish the deal and win the section.....they deserve to be in the OPEN.
Despite what everyone thinks CN will be ready against Salesian.....We'll see what happens....
Northbaybbguru
I'm not everyone else I believe CN can upset Salesian, does that put CN into the open division ? With a "28-4" record
I think CN beats Salesian and avenges last year's heartbreaking loss. Impressive statement against St Marys. Hopefully it doesn't put them into the Open. They would be a good D4 state contender. Open is just plain nasty....
Northbay
I think CN has a great chance to beat Salesian but the have a great game down low. If CN can stop Salesian from 2nd and 3rd shoots they should when if the pack it in and pack in on defense and force them to shoot outside they will win. Good luck even though I pick Salesian to win.
I think CN has a great chance to beat Salesian but the have a great game down low. If CN can stop Salesian from 2nd and 3rd shoots they should when if the pack it in and pack in on defense and force them to shoot outside they will win. Good luck even though I pick Salesian to win.
IMO: I say yes, Campo gets into NorCal. They deserve it.
Campo has been flying under eveyone's radar this season and just because there hasn't been a lot of old guys taking about them on forum doesn't mean they aren't good enough to be in norcal.
Maxprep has them ranked 7 in CA D3. Of the 6 schools ranked above them 4 if not all 6 will be going to Open.
Clay are you suggesting that Campo be skipped over because they lost in the semifinals?
BTW; Campo beast SV who beat Tamalpais; so is possible that one semifinal loser makes norcal but the other doesn't, but Tamalpais is ranked 20th and depending on how many D3 schools go to the Open, Tam could get in on a very low seed.
Aren't the NCS section semifinalists all guaranteed a spot in either NorCal or the Open? I take it your question is more will Campo be in the Open, as opposed to will they get into NorCal D3?
As far as the Open, only 4 teams from NCS can get in if they take that many, and MM, BOD, Salesian and Carondelet all seem to be ahead of them and are all in section finals. Would be odd to see them put in 3 NCS D3 teams.
I think Campo does deserve a spot in NorCals ... and my assumption is they will get one, but I'm unclear on whether semifinal teams are guaranteed a spot in postseason. For example, if the SF or Oakland champ is D1, say, do they take the place of one of the semifinalists? And what about the Northern Section? They have a couple D3s.
They've had outbrackets in the past, but my question is more about if there's a procedure that will be followed or the committee can do what it wants (with Oak Ridge and McClatchy, say).
They've had outbrackets in the past, but my question is more about if there's a procedure that will be followed or the committee can do what it wants (with Oak Ridge and McClatchy, say).
Ncs sends all four semi final teams. They will backfill from the highest remaining nor cal quarter final losers. Campolindo would be in if I am reading the brackets right and likely a high seed despite a softer schedule because their record is pretty good and outside of two blowouts at the hands of Miramonte they have been competitive. They are not an open team but likely will or should be one next year.
Clay
I with that said I would think Lincoln would get an at large beth because their game was close with St. Francis. They beat Oak Ridge by 27 points and beat Lincoln by only 5. That should be in consideration for a beth in D1.
I with that said I would think Lincoln would get an at large beth because their game was close with St. Francis. They beat Oak Ridge by 27 points and beat Lincoln by only 5. That should be in consideration for a beth in D1.
Here is the breakdown as I understand it
SJS: 4 semi-finalists per division
NCS: 4 semi-finalists per division (can add a 5th team if a team gets pulled up to Open)
CCS: 4 teams per division (all Open Division teams move up and then they fill out the quota from the regular playoffs. So if two teams from Division II were in Open, then they take the finalists from the Division II playoffs)
NS, Oakland and San Francisco: Just the section finalists move on.
SJS: 4 semi-finalists per division
NCS: 4 semi-finalists per division (can add a 5th team if a team gets pulled up to Open)
CCS: 4 teams per division (all Open Division teams move up and then they fill out the quota from the regular playoffs. So if two teams from Division II were in Open, then they take the finalists from the Division II playoffs)
NS, Oakland and San Francisco: Just the section finalists move on.
Luvthegame......
I hadn't really thought about CN being in the OPEN.
I kinda figured the losses to SHC, McClatchy and Iderkum, and no signature wins took them out the discussion.
But I guess maybe if they beat Salesian as that would be a signature win.
CN is in uncharted territory as a program. This is their 1st section title game in their program history.
I always thought a programs pedigree was taken into account also. CN has NO SENIORS, 8 of their 12 kids are freshman and sophomores...they have 4 juniors...... If CN, CLET and BC all win sec titles I would
assume that CN would be the third in line for OPEN between those 3 teams.
They are an OPEN team NEXT year...FOR SURE!!! This year they are good but not quite OPEN...IMO
***with all that being said, they are OPEN eligible though...so its definitely a possibility
I hadn't really thought about CN being in the OPEN.
I kinda figured the losses to SHC, McClatchy and Iderkum, and no signature wins took them out the discussion.
But I guess maybe if they beat Salesian as that would be a signature win.
CN is in uncharted territory as a program. This is their 1st section title game in their program history.
I always thought a programs pedigree was taken into account also. CN has NO SENIORS, 8 of their 12 kids are freshman and sophomores...they have 4 juniors...... If CN, CLET and BC all win sec titles I would
assume that CN would be the third in line for OPEN between those 3 teams.
They are an OPEN team NEXT year...FOR SURE!!! This year they are good but not quite OPEN...IMO
***with all that being said, they are OPEN eligible though...so its definitely a possibility
Northbaybbguru
it sounds like you're making excuses. Antelope only has one Senior just in case you were wondering ,I just didn't know youth was an excuse you can use. remember it's the same group of girls that used to beat up nortth bay elite when they were little
it sounds like you're making excuses. Antelope only has one Senior just in case you were wondering ,I just didn't know youth was an excuse you can use. remember it's the same group of girls that used to beat up nortth bay elite when they were little
is that the 8th grade JBS team that use to play against the NBE 7th graders in 7th grade AAU?
or is that the 9th grade JBS squad that played in the Stockton 8th grade tourney and were kicked out after it was discovered?
which one of those legendary JBS squads are you talking about? or is that the same same team just a year older?
but hey...JBS got to do what they got to do, don't want to lose that Adidas sponsorship.....even if it means coming across as a complete tool.
what's funny AZANNA is I would throw Antelope in EXACTLY the same boat as CN...1st time uncharted success for a young program and I think both teams deserve a shot at making a run this year in their respective divisions before being throw into the juggernaut that is the OPEN. By the way if it came down to CN or Antelope for that last Open spot....it would be Antelope as they are ranked ahead of CN in every ranking. And I'm sure with the way your coach avoids/opts out of actually playing anybody if he doesn't have to....he wouldn't be too happy about that.
You did hit a nerve and NB is exactly right. The Cagers used to battle those same teams and JBS was a mixed team and everyone knows it.
I really don't want to get into a who did what in AAU discussion on this thread. I really don't give a sh*t about 7th grade AAU from 3 yrs. ago....so lets just let it go. And lets stick with high school please.
this was supposed to be a thread on the section finals, who will win, and the consequences of those results.
that being said LUVTHEGAME asked me if I thought CN was an OPEN team if they won the NCS D4 section final over Salesian.
And I simply stated my case for why I thought they were NOT an open team.
I think BOTH Antelope and CN deserve an opportunity to make a deep run in their perspective divisions in state if they win their sections.
Now NEXT year for both teams is a different animal.....I fully expect CN to be OPEN next year...and if Antelope was to win section next year...I would expect them to be pulled to the OPEN also.
this was supposed to be a thread on the section finals, who will win, and the consequences of those results.
that being said LUVTHEGAME asked me if I thought CN was an OPEN team if they won the NCS D4 section final over Salesian.
And I simply stated my case for why I thought they were NOT an open team.
I think BOTH Antelope and CN deserve an opportunity to make a deep run in their perspective divisions in state if they win their sections.
Now NEXT year for both teams is a different animal.....I fully expect CN to be OPEN next year...and if Antelope was to win section next year...I would expect them to be pulled to the OPEN also.
northbaybaybbguru
I do agree with you that CN don't belong in the open this year, but a win against Salesian could send them into the open division because Salesian is a "lock" for the open win or lose you can't send the runner up to the open without sending the section Champion ?
Azanna
Antelope don't belong in the open but a win against Vanden to earn section champion... with a record of 31-1 how could they not be considered for the open ? That soft schedule will save them !!! Along with this criteria crap that nobody seems to truly understand or trust.
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Why everyone forgetting about Vanden. They won SJS D3 sections last year, runner up Norcal to BOD who won state, strength of schedule this year, quality wins ( SHC, Lincoln and MC) and might win this years section D2. They are a great candidate for the open if they win there section.
Antelope’s goal this year was to win a section title and if that happens tomorrow the season will be considered to have been a very successful one. I would love to see them make a run in Div. II for a state title and if God blesses them with a section title tomorrow than everything after that is gravy. If they get thrown into the open division so be it
Antelope does not meet the criteria for the open. They would have to opt in and if they did so they would draw SMS or Miramonte and lose by 40 do why would anyone opt in for that?
I hope they make a deep run in D2 and get the north a state title
I hope they make a deep run in D2 and get the north a state title
Carondelet will be the wild card. If they are in the Open division, they'll be the favorite, if not Antelope will be the favorite.
Saint Francis Mountain View, Presentation, Saint Ignatius, and Los Gatos from CCS could provide some resistance, but none of those teams are *really* good this year. Folsom - don't know much about them. Their schedule is a bit tougher than Antelope's, but they lost most of their tough games, some by quite a lot.
Saint Francis Mountain View, Presentation, Saint Ignatius, and Los Gatos from CCS could provide some resistance, but none of those teams are *really* good this year. Folsom - don't know much about them. Their schedule is a bit tougher than Antelope's, but they lost most of their tough games, some by quite a lot.
I hope you meant to say if Carondelet is in D2 for NorCal they will be the favorite, as no way they would be the favorite in the Open with SMS & MM looming. They should win NCS D2 going away and I don't know how they would be kept out of the Open.
St Francis's 5 point win was at home against Lincoln as well, while the victory over Oak Ridge was a neutral site. Lincoln got jobbed last year. They ended up having to go to Davis where they lost a tight game in over time. The selection committee sent four teams from the Bay area that Lincoln had rolled by large margins during the regular season. Lincoln also had played SMS twice and despite that still had a better record than many of the teams that were ranked ahead of them in the D1 Sac Sec. They didn't back fill and give them a slot last year either. While they probably deserve an at large birth I wouldn't hold my breath that it will happen.
northbaybaybbguru
I do agree with you that CN don't belong in the open this year, but a win against Salesian could send them into the open division because Salesian is a "lock" for the open win or lose you can't send the runner up to the open without sending the section Champion ?
Azanna
Antelope don't belong in the open but a win against Vanden to earn section champion... with a record of 31-1 how could they not be considered for the open ? That soft schedule will save them !!! Along with this criteria crap that nobody seems to truly understand or trust.
Yeah that is going to be a awkward situation if Newman wins sections of Salesian. I actually don't think its that big of an upset either. Don't get me wrong they are the underdogs but it wouldn't surprise me. You guys know better than me but how many of these open top 8 would Newman beat? Are they as good as pinewood, odowd, or carandolet? I personally would like to see them stay in D4 which would make them a favorite to be in the state game. Next year they would be an open team.
Yeah that was a typo. I meant to say if they aren't in the Open they'll be the favorite.
I think the first 6 are locked win or lose in the section. The 7 and 8 spot will go to 2 of these teams Brookside, Vanden, Carondelet, Antelope, CN and SHC. Carondelet might be a lock win they when their section Championship. Brookside might be in unless the committee decided to put someone with a better record like winner of SJS D2 ANTELOPE or VANDEN. They also just put SHC in for no reason because Brookside already beat them. CN will be in the open if they beat Salesian.
Just think of this if BOD beats MM will shake up the top 4. It could be
1) SMS
2) Mitty
3) BOD
4) MM
5) Pinewood
6) Salesian
7) Brookside
8) Carondelet
Brookside would love to play Mitty again fully loaded.
Think about if Pinewood beats Mitty and Vanden beats Antelope will shake up the Open too.
1)SMS
2)MM
3)Pinewood
4) Mitty
5) BOD
6) Salesian
7)Vanden
8) Carondelet
Last one think of CN beats Salesian
1) SMS
2) MM
3) Mitty
4) Pinewood
5) BOD
6) Carondelet
7) CN
8) Salesian
Wow that's alot to think about all the possibilities !!!!!!!!!
Just think of this if BOD beats MM will shake up the top 4. It could be
1) SMS
2) Mitty
3) BOD
4) MM
5) Pinewood
6) Salesian
7) Brookside
8) Carondelet
Brookside would love to play Mitty again fully loaded.
Think about if Pinewood beats Mitty and Vanden beats Antelope will shake up the Open too.
1)SMS
2)MM
3)Pinewood
4) Mitty
5) BOD
6) Salesian
7)Vanden
8) Carondelet
Last one think of CN beats Salesian
1) SMS
2) MM
3) Mitty
4) Pinewood
5) BOD
6) Carondelet
7) CN
8) Salesian
Wow that's alot to think about all the possibilities !!!!!!!!!
hate to burst your bubble there RESPECT but in 2 of your 3 scenarios you have the NCS with5 teams in the OPEN...4 is max allowed
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