Statistic wise many of those mentioned were either defense or non skill players. It's hard to match statistics to most of them.
I'm not mentioning these kids to downgrade them. Quite the contrary they were were far better than average players IMO.
ANTIOCH----THE TEAM TO BEAT
- Thread starter Bluedog2
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Statistic wise many of those mentioned were either defense or non skill players. It's hard to match statistics to most of them.
I'm not mentioning these kids to downgrade them. Quite the contrary they were were far better than average players IMO.
From both a statistic stand point and a physical stand point the kids listed were average which again speaks to the program not the athlete. I mean we are talking about 6'0" to 6'2" 185 to 210 lineman some of those kid were. That's anything but special, heck that might not even be average by today's standards. Now there were some very talented kids mentioned no doubt. But reality is most are products of the program not the other way around.
Both Houstons are on full scholarships. Sullivan had offers is currently at DVC, Rosales is a juco transfer at Cal Poly, Griffin transferred from Wazzu to Cal Poly, Hernandez is a walk on at Cal Poly and Custer will play on Saturdays. Larry Allen Jr is at Harvard. Pretty much all these guys are above average.
I hear what you're saying about DLS 210 pound linemen. The past 5 or 6 years the trend is toward 250 plus pound linemen. It's my contention that even the 210 pounders from yesteryear were better than average freshman year and were made better with coaching and hard work. There are many outstanding high school football players that aren't the desired height, weight and speed that college coaches are pursuing.
This is another example of you making a hard to believe talent assessment.
Nick Monrtana got a ride to the Univ of Washington.
We are to believe Nick Montana was average at best and a 200 LB DLS lineman that gets zero offers as so great they are not found in many other east bay schools.
It does not compute.
Was Montana ever a varsity starter at DLS? Odd that Joe would send his son, a pro style QB to DLS in the first place. Rivals shows him as a JUCO transfer to Tulane University.
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No he was the DLS JV starter his SO year. He transferred to Oaks Christian where he started his JR. and Sr years and had great production.
He left UW when he didn't get enough playing time.
http://www.gohuskies.com/ViewArticle.dbml?ATCLID=208063674
He left UW when he didn't get enough playing time.
http://www.gohuskies.com/ViewArticle.dbml?ATCLID=208063674
I read that after playing JUCO he transferred to Tulane where he got beat out by a redshirt freshman not sure what happened after that.
It's becoming clear that B3K will cherry pick whatever evidence he wants to support his position. His refusal to recognize DLS is who they are because of coaching, system, hard work, and player accountability, is nothing short of disturbing. Guys like him need to justify their success by saying it because they get all the talent, they are private, they have more coaches, green is a lucky color, etc........ And yeah if you build a winner talent will show up nobody is saying different. But there are plenty of schools with talent that simply can't compare.
So of the 20 some odd players you listed. Three had scholarships, two had to go juco route, one has to walk on, and another you say will play on Saturday. Not exactly a well representation of all the areas talent. It's also a head scratcher that's you use playing on Saturday to justify your position yet discredit a top 50 list that has one DLS player? Odd way of proving a point.
More than three of those had scholarships and I'm leaving out the obvious studs like Boss, Hooper, Das and Asiasi. I've admitted DLS has superior coaching, commitment and work ethic, I just ain't drinking the average talent kool aid and you are lame for expecting us to drink it.
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I did some research on players with at least 1 division 1 offer over the past five seasons, dating back to the 2011-2012 season and came up with these numbers. Foothill - 4, California - 3 and SRV - 8 for a total of 15 players averaging one player per school per season. In that same timeframe DLS had 16 players with at least one D1 offer or slightly over three per season on average. Throw in outstanding players like Moffitt, Wiley, Velasco and Hernandez. Still think they get average talent in Greenland?
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I thought D1 offers or grade was a bad way to judge talent just a few posts up? When it wasn't working for you that was your excuse. Now it's what you want to base this on. Anyway how many did Pitt have over that time just wondering. Also could you provide a link to your source for this data?
Any way you slice it DLS has a talent advantage and the three ebal teams I used are some of the stronger programs in the Bay Area. I used offers because that's black and white, not subjective. Got roster info from max preps offers from rivals and other recruiting sites.
So how many did Pitt have again? You seemed to,gloss,over that question all together.
Look it up yourself. How is Pitt any more relevant to this conversation than the three ebal teams I took the time to look up? I would be real surprised if Pitt had more than 10 or 12 in the same five year stretch.
1.Frankly Pitt routinely is more talented than those teams and it's probably why you left them out. 2. Offers doesn't mean crap in all reality because it's actually signing and playing is what counts. Offers get revoked all the time. Heck players get offers without even being scout sometimes because a rival offered them. 3. I don't have a membership to rivals so I don't have access to this data. 4. I haven't seen where this is even available on max preps. 5. You made the claim I asked for proof the burden is on you not me.
Offers aren't available on max preps. Like I said I looked there for roster names. I agree that Pitt probably has more players offered than the teams i chose. Notice I also didn't include the lower tier ebal teams like Granada and Livermore in my numbers. Just like DLS plays as a team Pitt tends to not play as a team which is why Pitt tends to underachieve as a team despite strong talent.
Pitt's offers seem to come in spurts. In a five year period I would say they are closer to 8 offer rather than 10 to 12.
As far as having more talent than the EBAL teams listed, I'd say they are on par with San Ramon, Cal, and Monte Vista the past 6 years as far as college talent. Maybe out talenting them 60 to 70 percent of the time. Which is probably why they beat those teams 60 to 70 percent of the time. I would say DLS out talents NCS teams the past 10 years 99% of the time with that 1% being this coming season.
As far as having more talent than the EBAL teams listed, I'd say they are on par with San Ramon, Cal, and Monte Vista the past 6 years as far as college talent. Maybe out talenting them 60 to 70 percent of the time. Which is probably why they beat those teams 60 to 70 percent of the time. I would say DLS out talents NCS teams the past 10 years 99% of the time with that 1% being this coming season.
I researched Pitt and only found 6 players with D1 offers over the past 5 years. However, there could easily be a couple more since I'm more familiar with EBAL than I am with BVAL. Over this time period Cal High has dominated SRV and only lost one one time to them. Despite having a fair amount of talent with 8 guys with offers as opposed to 3 for Cal High, the parent driven politics at SRV seem to be part of the reason that team has underachieved recently.
When a team has a consistently higher level of talent to go along with coaching, hard work and playing as a team, it makes for a nearly unbeatable combination.
When a team has a consistently higher level of talent to go along with coaching, hard work and playing as a team, it makes for a nearly unbeatable combination.
Everybody is sleeping on this year's DLS team...they're gonna surprise some people.
How does a team that's undefeated for 24 straight years surprise anyone?
Because according to ALOT of people on this board and a couple other boards, DLS is being said to have the worst talent they've had in years... so if they come out and do very well, which they probably will, it will be a "surprise" to many people.
I personally won't be surprised or convinced until they lose to a nor cal team. I expect them to be strong maybe not quite as strong as recent past. Welcome to the board townbiz24
Im reading:
-Pitt beats the EBAL when they have more talent
-Cal beats SRV with less talent
A conclusion can be made from this small sample that: talent does not guarantee winning
... No surprise there to most observers of HS football
Many DLS arguments happen when the above is not agreed upon by both parties
Too often the discussion starts with "DLS has more talent, therefore they of course win"
Why do the same programs win year after year after year... Campo, Folsom, CC, CVC (since Murphy arrival), Bells, Cal, Grant, Elk Grove etc
Cant be just due to talent...
So the real debate should be how much does coaching, leadership, S&C, culture, tradition, etc count towards a winning HS football program. All factors that can be duplicated in public or private schools... it aint easy, but it can be done.
-Pitt beats the EBAL when they have more talent
-Cal beats SRV with less talent
A conclusion can be made from this small sample that: talent does not guarantee winning
... No surprise there to most observers of HS football
Many DLS arguments happen when the above is not agreed upon by both parties
Too often the discussion starts with "DLS has more talent, therefore they of course win"
Why do the same programs win year after year after year... Campo, Folsom, CC, CVC (since Murphy arrival), Bells, Cal, Grant, Elk Grove etc
Cant be just due to talent...
So the real debate should be how much does coaching, leadership, S&C, culture, tradition, etc count towards a winning HS football program. All factors that can be duplicated in public or private schools... it aint easy, but it can be done.
I actually think more consistent coaching has enabled Cal to beat SRV more often than not recently.
That doesn't mean they won't be good. They'll beat everyone in NorCal and I predict a SoCal loss in State. Maybe!
The way I look at it PJ884 is that it ALL matters, like you said. It starts with coaching, then talent, then followed by all of the above along with the will to work and succeed, strong academic accountability, etc...
I am not impressed with SRV latest coach- they dont perform the fundamentals nearly as well as the last two HC. They are not as physical either.
"So the real debate should be how much does coaching, leadership, S&C, culture, tradition, etc count towards a winning HS football program. All factors that can be duplicated in public or private schools... it aint easy, but it can be done."
Firstly, dLS is not just any ole "winning program," nor do they have the monopoly on that. Plenty of those to be had in the East Bay where kids stay in their neighborhood schools with their friends, willing to gut it out against the best. (Unless you're a wannabe QB pilfering PT at an urban baller school.LOL)
But I'd certainly like to know which East Bay public can afford 24 paid coaches, or constantly get the numerous volunteer in-season and off-season guys.
Firstly, dLS is not just any ole "winning program," nor do they have the monopoly on that. Plenty of those to be had in the East Bay where kids stay in their neighborhood schools with their friends, willing to gut it out against the best. (Unless you're a wannabe QB pilfering PT at an urban baller school.LOL)
But I'd certainly like to know which East Bay public can afford 24 paid coaches, or constantly get the numerous volunteer in-season and off-season guys.
I've always been under the impression the head coach gets roughly $15k a year on top of his teaching salary to dispense amongst himself and his assistants as he sees fit. I've also been told that Coach Lad was paid much more than that. Like you say Paul it ain't the money that motivates high school football coaches for the thousands of hours they commit to the sport.
God I hope they lose in NCS playoffs get that mulligan and move on and play for the D1 state title.
The city of Plesanton just raised $1 million for more sports parks ... there is two schools.
I will also go out on a limb and state Danville, San Ramon, Livermore, Orinda, Moraga, Lafayatte as cities that could raise money and find more volunteers.. just get those parents to reduce juniors private QB, pitching, soccer, etc programs by a few bucks and you could raise lots o' money for the HS football coaches...
Do I need to go on?
Why, they already get an automatic NCS bid.
Losing in the D1 title game would be the coup de grace IMO
No illusions whatsoever. I find it interesting the President of dLS would publish how many paid FB coaches are in the budget. No question there has to be top-down administrative support as one of the many factors to sustain an elite program.
But to insinuate publics can duplicate all the same factors Bob Ladouceur has created in his legacy is disingenuous.
Parents at Cal High raised 50k annually for its S&C coach (NFL pedigree plus certs) for a FT staff position (not credentialed.) Once that fundraising could not be sustained (partially due to a leadership change,) he had no choice to head to BG.
Not mentioning 750K of the Pleasanton money coming from corporate sponsors and naming rights is typical obfuscation.
But to insinuate publics can duplicate all the same factors Bob Ladouceur has created in his legacy is disingenuous.
Parents at Cal High raised 50k annually for its S&C coach (NFL pedigree plus certs) for a FT staff position (not credentialed.) Once that fundraising could not be sustained (partially due to a leadership change,) he had no choice to head to BG.
Not mentioning 750K of the Pleasanton money coming from corporate sponsors and naming rights is typical obfuscation.
That's it then? The Cal parents quit? That easily?
Cal fans have no complaint for not enough coaches.. it doesn't take all that much money ... show some leadership and get it done- you are a passionate fan why dont you step in take the leadership role?
Your last sentence makes it sound as if the communities I listed could not get funds together to help the football program... wow, a new low for you. And that is saying something.
You sure play the victim well... un-American.
