Carmel doesn’t opt up
- Thread starter 831ccschamp
- Start date
Technically, yes. The argument, so to speak is that Carmel is a pretty dominant program but playing in a B League at present. B league champs have the option to opt up into the Bowl eligible playoffs if they choose to, or otherwise to play for a “regular” CCS title against other Schools of a simiar size.
I’m sure I’m missing some of the finer points but CCS has a 2-tier sectionals playoff system and some fans are disappointed to see Carmel pass on the more challenging competition. They have good reasons I’m sure, but they have a pretty talented group this year and naturally many if us wanted to see them line up with an Aptos or Palma level program in The Open (Bowl eligible) DIII division.
In simplistic terms, CCS classifies its leagues as A, B or C leagues (based on historical strength of schedule and win loss and also some of the leagues are equity leagues that have each has divisions classified as strongest to weakest and teams move up and down divisions based place - top two up and bottom two down except when in top division two move down and two replace those from next strongest division). The top leagues which there are five (WCAL, PCAL-Gab division, PAL-Bay division, SCVAL – DeAnza, and BVAL – MHAL ) have a number of automatic placements and the rest go to playoffs (At large) to fill out three bowl eligible Open Division Playoff brackets. D1 Open, D2 Open and D3 Open. 2 teams from each (those that make championship) get to participate in the state bowl playoffs. The 40 teams are aranged by enrollment into each of the divivons largest to smallest and seeded bu a power point system. The section also has 2 non-bowl eligible playoff divisions DiV and DV. Teams in non A leagues that win their leagues can opt up to bowl eligible and if they have enough points to displace a team in the open playoffs, they can move into the playoff. Carmel which played in and were champs of a B league if they opted up would have had enough points based on their win-loss record and strength of schedule to place the, at #3 seed in the D3 Open playoff, but they didn't opt up and so they play in their enrollment size non-eligible bowl playoff. The seeding power point calculation is another discussion but available on the CC website bylaws.
Yes you are correct. Carmel probably could put 70+ on many of the teams it will play. Next season it look like they will be moved into the PCAL Gab with Salinas, Palma, Aptos and Hollister.
Good summary but I want to add one clarification to your comment. If they would have opted up, they would still be playing schools of a similar size and not necessarily bigger schools like Slick58 wondered. But the competing schools would typically be much stronger with an opt up to Open.
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Even better summary, but again DIII is also enrollment based along with their A league classification. Enrollment defines which open Division a school will end up in - DI, DII or DIII.
Got it. Haven’t seen Carmel play but on paper they look like a good team. I wonder how they came to the decision. Like was it a team vote or coaches decision? I’d be interested to hear the arguments for and against opting into the open. On paper looks like they can play with the teams I’ve seen mentioned on another thread had they opted up.
Personally disappointed that they didn't opt up. Now we will never know just how good they are.I still feel like this was the year to do it. With that being said- the only team IMO that could possibly give them a game in D5 is TKA.
I don’t want to hear a Carmel fan on this board say, “ we could have beaten...” we have a great team this year...., any of that crap, ever, ever, ever again. Come on.... you’ve got to be kidding me.
Carmel you’ve lost some street cred. In my book. You better win out that’s all I can say.
I literally have never seen a Carmel fan say that on here, so I doubt they will start now.
Carmel defeated #4 seed in CCS Div 1 Open playoff Salinas in their first games of the season and Alisal by 2 TD which only lost to #3 seed in CCS D3 Open playoff by 4. Carmel would have been seeded #3 in the D3 Open division if they opted up and really there is little to defend them not opting up. They will most likely be forced up in the PCAL A league thi upcoming season. One hypothesis of reason why they didn't opt up is that after Alisal game, they were beat up and a few players couldn't have contact at practice so the thought is they couldn't hold up with the level of play more than a game or two. I find that hard to take as a reason as Carmel fields over 40 players and I think St Ignatius field barely 30 and Palma is under 40. I think it is just that the head coach has a similar point of view that former Los Gatos head coach Butch Catalico had and didn't want to compete with the top privates being a public school unless forced. Although their head coach did schedule Palma in the season and has played against Sacred Heart Prep and Palma in playoffs. It's just too bad but they seem to have a different view on competing.
How does a 2-8 team even make the playoffs? And if they do accept the bid, they’re likely to face the top ranked opponent, so it can’t be a surprise they are forced to play a team like St. Francis.
Man I'm really disappointed in Carmel. I just dont get it. For years they have scheduled regular season games against all the top local teams. Why not do the same in the playoffs? They will be getting bumped to an A league next year anyways.
I think they probably should have opted up. I mean in my opinion Golden’s reasoning for not opting up makes a lot of sense, but I think it still sends a bad message to the players that their coach “doesn’t believe in them”.
But as far as roster sizes go, it’s not the be all end all when it comes to depth. Watsonville, for example, started the year with over 40 kids on the roster, but still had a bunch of guys going both ways because a good chunk of the roster just wasn’t all that good. So while they had a decent sized roster, they didn’t have a ton of depth. You also could have a team with 30 or so kids that has enough talent to where they are platooning kids; they would actually have better depth then a school like Watsonville. I don’t know anything about Carmel’s backups though, just pointing out that roster size and depth don’t always go hand in hand.
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Carmel will make it to the finals and lose to TKA. That will end the debate about them going to the open. Their common opponent was Monta Vista Christian. Carmel wins 14-0 and TKA beats Monta Vista Christian 37-14 and it wasn't even that close. TKA has been under the radar most of the season. They are explosive and very well coached. Carmel should hope that TKA does not get a lead for then they will control the game. Both teams should have no trouble getting to the finals. It should be highly entertaining.
I think your assessment of TKA is accurate and matchups make games. The match up doesn’t favor Carmel. Which kinda means they stayed down for no reason. They had a chance to make it to the D3 finals. Then they would have a bowl game whether or not they win. Any ways Mt. Pleasant most likely doesn’t have a chance but does any one give Saratoga or Gonzales a shot against Carmel?
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I think Gonzales and Saratoga will be a mismatch. I cannot see Gonzales being very competitive with Saratoga. But it is hard to tell based on Gonzales schedule because I don't see any team that they played that even make the playoffs. I think Saratoga can be competitive with Carmel but I cannot see them beating them .
I think Gonzales and Saratoga will be a mismatch. I cannot see Gonzales being very competitive with Saratoga. But it is hard to tell based on Gonzales schedule because I don't see any team that they played that even make the playoffs. I think Saratoga can be competitive with Carmel but I cannot see them beating them .
Nobody on this board made the decision to stay in DV, and nobody on here is going to say that anyway. We’re all disappointed.
Calpreps has Carmel ranked #9 in CCS, TKA #18, and Saratoga #55. But you think TKA is gonna roll Carmel and Saratoga is on par.
Buckle up Homie.
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I don’t think Monterey will get past TKA but I think their speed could cause issues if they play Carmel.
And ask Cal 14 how reliable the common opponent/score comparison methodology has been of late. I’m sure TKA has some talent but Carmel has handled everyone they’ve played so far this year by 2 TD’s or more.
I don’t think looking at the score differential from one common opponent as telling us anything at this point. If they both get to the finals we’ll find out who’s right.
I’m glad they won’t meet until the finals, as that should make for the best matchup in DV, but nobody should take Gonzales, MVC or Monterey for granted either.
Monte vista is sleeper team for sure. The more time that team has in that system the better they will become. Also facing a quality team and coaching staff a second time is dangerous because they will make adjustments. It’s guessing game for what those adjustments would be. Last year Soledad shut out Scott’s valley and in the play offs they lost to them in a close game because of the adjustments made of the first time playing each other.
For whatever reason(unknown to anyone who has posted here for sure) Carmel’s Head Coach just doesn’t see competing for a Bowl spot as a priority. They went 13-0 in 2009 with a team that dominated each game and I don’t think he even filled out the paperwork for consideration as I recall. I don’t think it’s about being banged up as every team is in tbat state at this point in the season. I think it has to do more with his disinterest in chasing a State title and the fact that many of his players already miss the first week or two of Winter Sports with the standard round of 3 CCS playoff games. I’m not making excuses for the program but from all I’ve seen and heard I think it’s more philosophical than anything else as the HC is also their AD.
All I know is as a player I want to try and get to a bowl game. I would be disappointed that I never got that opportunity for a very long time. Carmel at this point of time has a winning tradition and a CCS trophy is something they’ve accomplished. I feel for the kids who believe in their team and that they don’t get the chance to do something that would be a first in the programs history.
Agreed. Hell, I still tear up every time I watch “Rudy!”
Even if you have no desire for a state game that doesn’t mean you shouldn’t want your team competing against the best teams possible. Palma opted up back in the day. Some of the years they had to know they had no chance at an open division title but they always wanted to challenge their teams.
I would really like to know what Golden’s reason for not opting up is. I’m a big fan of him and coach ward and I thought this team was capable of competing for the D3 open title.
Read my prior posts. I agree completely and as frustrated as any good fan of this team.
The big difference between now and 2009 is that there are now multiple Nor- Cal play in games and then I believe 14 state championship games- based on equity match ups. In 2009 there were no Nor- Cal games and only 5 state championship games. In other words- in todays playoff scenario there a lot more opportunities to advance and play in a "state championship" game. I still feel like this would have been the year for Carmel to make a go of it- but they decided to go in a different direction which is their prerogative.As a fan of Monterey Bay football- it would have been interesting to see how it would have played out.
If I can remember correctly in 2009 the only division there was to opt up to was the CCS Open division which Carmel has no business being in. They did the same thing in 2011 but Palma decide to mess with CCS format and not opt up to the open.
There was no play-in game in 2009, so some panel elected who represented Norcal in each of 4 or 5 Bowl games. Carmel was one of the teams in the running but no idea if they would have been selected even if they were interested. As I recall they needed to put in some paperwork to be considered but Anderson chose not to. I may be wrong but that’s how I remember things went.
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