Final Girls prep basketball National poll 2016-2017............

[Paytc]

Selecting the number 1 team was a little difficult as one could imagine. So was putting together the top 30. But I gave it my best shot. I will take feedback and look it over. May change slightly and/or confirm by Friday. 31-36 are late add-ons.

Disclaimer: This is just my opinion.

Number 1 could have went to 1 or 2. For that matter one could argue the point for 1-5 and perhaps a few more. But Clovis West edged MCD out by the narrowest of margins. Mainly because of the head to head, and having a slightly more difficult final tournament having to beat LBP and Mitty to win the California Open Division championship.

1. Clovis West, Ca. 34-2 Perhaps the toughest (sos), TOC champs, Iolani Runner-up, Open champ.
2. MCD, Fl. 30-1 Only loss to #1 CW in TOC championship game. SOS slightly less than CW.
3. Centennial 30-2 Loss to Paul VI, split with Clovis West winning the rematch in less challenging environment.
4. St. Johns, D.C. 31-2 Beat Mitty @TOC, Beat Paul VI 2 of 3, loss to CW@TOC.
5.Grandview, Co. 27-1 Beat Mitty @ TOC only loss in overtime vs MCD @TOC.
6.Mitty, Ca. 28-3 Beat CW @Iolani championship in ot, loss rematch, loss to Grandview.
7.Paul VI, Va. 32-2 Beat Centennial, loss 2 of 3 to St. Johns. Mild strength of schedule.
8.Seton Catholic, Az. 29-3 Won state, beat Mesquite, loss @TOC to Grandview& Centennial.
9.Mesquite, AZ. 31-1 Won TOC J.A. Div., won state (5A), only loss to Seton Catholic, Az.
10. Riverdale, Tn. 34-0 Didn't to my knowledge attend TOC, Dick's, or Iolani Tourney's Mild.
11.Hamilton Heights, Tn. 29-2 Beat B.A. and St. Francis Academy, loss to MCD @ Dicks champ.
12.St. Frances, MD. 30-1 mild (SOS) loss to Hamilton Heights @ Dicks Tournament in O.T.
13. Duncanville, TX. 39-2 Texas State Champions. Rather mild (SOS).
14. Fayetteville, AR. 30-2 State champs? Rather mild (SOS).
15. Incarnate Word, MO. 27-4 Runner-up TOC J.A. Division, State champions.
16. Male, Ky. 29-3 loss to Paul VI, Beat Mercer County.
17. Monocan, Va. 30-0 Rather mild (SOS) To my knowledge no appearance in top tourneys.
18. LBP, Ca. 27-4 Beat Winward, loss to CW twice and MCD and Seton Catholic.
19. Winward, Ca. 30-4 Won State Div 1, Beat Mater Dei, loss to LBP others @ TOC.
20. SMS,Ca. 21-9 Tough (SOS) Played well @ TOC but went 2-2. Injuries, lack of depth hurt.
21. Valley Vista, Az. 26-6 Won State, 2-2 @ TOC.
22. Canyon, Tx. 30-3 Didn't to my knowledge travel or play out of state teams.
23. South Shore, Ny. 25-4 State champs. Rather mild (SOS).
24. Mercer County, Ky. 31-6 Loss to Male, Hamilton Heights, St. Johns, Beat St. Frances. Ga.
25. Lassale, Or. 26-2 Won State. Beat Cherry Creek & O.L.G.C. @TOC. Loss Mater Dei .
26. St. Frances, Ga. 26-5 Rather Mild (SOS)?
27. Cardinal Newman, Ca. 30-4 Came on strong down the stretch. Proved Ca. Open Worthy.
28. Christ The King, Ny. 16-6 Rather tough (SOS) won 3 0f 4 @ TOC J.A. Division.
29. Wesleyan, Ga. 28-4 Won State.
30. Dupont Manual, Ky. 21-9 Beat Male in State championship. Finished strong.
31.Timberview, Tx. 37-3 One of the top teams in the state.
32.Montini Catholic, IL. 33-2 One of the top teams in the state.
33.Murry, KY. 27-6 Took Riverdale to OT before losing, proof Riverdale Over-rated.
34.Hopkins, MN. 31-1 Number 1 team in the State.
35. Elk River, MN. 32-0 Perfect season is hard to not recognize even with mild (SOS)
36. Destrehan, LA. 35-0 Perfect season is hard to not recognize even with mild (SOS)

 

[jazzpt55]

CW lost 70 to 46 on neutral court
....sorry done deal...you can't do that and be the national champion. ....you just cant....
They just quit....
You can't do that and say you are the best team...national champions don't quit like that

 

[Paytc]

CW lost 70 to 46 on neutral court
....sorry done deal...you can't do that and be the national champion. ....you just cant....
They just quit....
You can't do that and say you are the best team...national champions don't quit like that

Not just judged fully by what happened in the beginning, middle or end of the season, but all three. I took it all into consideration. Who ended the season beating a team better than Mitty?

Then who's better and been equally tested? I think just about anyone in the top five I have listed could be #1. A loss regardless to the score to a quality team is a loss. And the teams split with that being a rematch game which is much easier than the first unfamiliar match up. Especially with the first game being played in the toughest tournament in the nation with all eyes watching, And playing 4 games in 4 days. Much tougher !

Cw loss by 1 point in overtime to what was at the time the #1 team in the nation. But guess what? It was still a full loss. It wasn't a quarter of a loss. One loss is one loss. CW has beaten everyone who beat them.

MCD I don't think is necessarily the best team but they only have 1 loss at the TOC against CW in the championship game. So do you think MCD is #1? Or who is and why?

To me CW let Centennial game plan and get rested and better prepared for them the second time around. It s much harder to beat teams you are unfamiliar with in tough tournaments in back to back games. Not sure who I would say did that better than CW all season.

 

[jaymel911]

Not just judged fully by what happened in the beginning, middle or end of the season but all three. I took it all into consideration. Who ended the season beating a team better than Mitty?

Then who's better and been equally tested? I think just about anyone in the top five I have listed could be #1. A loss regardless to the score to a quality team is a loss. And the teams split with that being a rematch game which is much easier than the first unfamiliar match up.

Cw loss by 1 point in overtime to what was at the time the #1 team in the nation. But guess what? It was still a full loss. It wasn't a quarter of a loss. One loss is one loss. CW has beaten everyone who beat them.

MCD I don't think is necessarily the best team but they only have 1 loss at the TOC against CW in the championship game. So do you think MCD is #1? Or who is and why?

To me CW let Centennial game plan and get rested and better prepared for them the second time around. It s much harder to beat teams you are unfamiliar with in tough tournaments in back to back games. Not sure who I would say did that better than CW all season.

So you reward Mesquite for staying home and playing in the second bracket in their home gym and lose an instate game to a team that yes won state but did not win their league? Riverdale had a flight cancellation and went undefeated and played a tough schedule. CW, as Jazz points out got lit up by Centennial. Tough to tell Centennial you had the same record as the national champ and beat them by three touchdowns in the second meeting and you are not #1.

I guess I get to release my rankings this week as well.

 

[Paytc]

So you reward Mesquite for staying home and playing in the second bracket in their home gym and lose an instate game to a team that yes won state but did not win their league? Riverdale had a flight cancellation and went undefeated and played a tough schedule. CW, as Jazz points out got lit up by Centennial. Tough to tell Centennial you had the same record as the national champ and beat them by three touchdowns in the second meeting and you are not #1.

I guess I get to release my rankings this week as well.

Good points. I was there and overheard something about Riverdale could have taken a later flight and been worked into the tournament but decided to skip it? Not sure if that is 100 % the case, but I think it was. Mesquite didn't have to go anywhere as the toughest tournament in the nation comes to them. Sure that is an advantage, but they didn't win the top division. And you still play some of the nation's best.That is why I said you could argue for any of my top 5 to be #1. In my opinion CW was the most tested team between them Riverdale,Centennial, MCD,St. John's, and Grandview. And they beat MCD, and St. Johns so their #1 IMO. And they beat everyone who beat them. I didn't see the game so not sure how the 2nd game went down.

The problem with Centennial is their state championship as is just about every team in the top 10 was not as tough as winning the California Open tournament. What team ended their season beating a team as tough as Mitty? And winning games in a tough high pressure tournament setting is far more impressive than winning an individual one day game, especially a rematch.

It's also hard to put Centennial over MCD who only loss once. And that was to CW in the championship game in the highest division of the TOC. CW won the TOC, MCD was runner up, and Centennial was in that tournament. What tough tournament did Centennial win or place 2nd?

And to me I take into account the start, middle, and end of the season. Not just the number of so call or confirmed Division 1 players, who your dad is, the program you're from, or anything else on paper. I also take into account who played in the toughest tournaments. This year the TOC, Dick's, Iolani, and Ca. Open were the toughest I know about. CW played well in 3 of 4. And they didn't play in the 4th. But by all means put together a list. I'd be interested in seeing it.

 

[bodyguard]

IMO Clovis West won the CA Open, won the TOC and beat the only two teams to beat them and beat the #2, #3 (split), #4 and #6 (split). Riverdale is compelling but the schedule not tough enough.

 

[Willtalk]

Riverdale could have made the TOC but decided they would be at a disadvantage showing up later than they had planned. In other words they didn't want to play except under optimum conditions. Their strength of schedule was 17.5 Compare that with Mitty 31.4 - SMS 31.1 followed by CW with 26.3. the toughest 3 in the Nation.. When you play more top flight teams the odds increase are that you will have an off day and get knocked off. Even though Centenial rolled CW they bearly beat SMS by 3 in the same tournament. A game that SMS wasn't really playing that well in and it still came down to the last shot. Some days you just play better than other days. The more tough teams you play the greater the odds you will lose. I think Riverdale chose to not take a risk of losing to try for an undefeated season and a national championship. Teams always have to play in less than optimum conditions and that's how some losses come about. I personally do not want to reward teams that avoid competition to keep a better won loss record.

 

[SouthBayHoopFan]

Clay, I appreciate your MaxPreps poll each year. But does it occur to you that your methodology results in far too many unchallenged teams being your #1 at the end of the year? Neumann-Goretti, Duncanville, and Riverdale in just the last three years. Seems like the path to #1 in your poll is frequently the path of least resistance. Just saying.

 

[ClayK]

That's a good point ... no system is perfect, in anything, and I would say mine gives higher value to going unbeaten than do others. Maybe that reflects my experience as a coach, and knowing just how hard it is to win every time out, and never have that letdown against a good opponent.

I think anyone who does this weights the various factors differently, and in a somewhat muddled year, like this one, you wind up with different number ones.

But I will say this: I don't think I've ever ranked a team No. 1 that lost a game by 24 points, as Clovis did, or even 17, as St. John's College did. If you're the best team in the nation, my feeling would be that even if you lose, it should be close.

Then again, that's weighting one factor more heavily than another, and that's another unavoidable byproduct of any system, pretty much.

 

[SouthBayHoopFan]

But I will say this: I don't think I've ever ranked a team No. 1 that lost a game by 24 points, as Clovis did, or even 17, as St. John's College did. If you're the best team in the nation, my feeling would be that even if you lose, it should be close.

Apples to oranges maybe, but consider this. The 2015 - 2016 GS Warriors had the best regular season record of all-time. They would certainly have been ranked #1 that year in the absence of a playoff. Yet on Feb. 19, 2016, they lost by 32 points to the Trailblazers. it just proves that even the best team (of all time in this case) can have an off night. And as other posters have mentioned, if you're always playing cupcakes you will still win on that off night. Doesn't really mean you're the best.

Just another opinion, but I agree with ESPN (and Paytc of course) that Clovis West was the best team in the country this year.

 

[colhenrylives]

Here is the USA Today Final Top Ten:

1. Riverdale; 2. St. John's College; 3. Paul VI; 4. Centennial; 5. Clovis West; 6. Miami Country Day; 7. Monacan; 8. Grandview; 9. Mitty; 10. Duncanville.

Long Beach Poly is No.12.

 

[jaymel911]

Looks good to me

 

[Paytc]

That's a good point ... no system is perfect, in anything, and I would say mine gives higher value to going unbeaten than do others. Maybe that reflects my experience as a coach, and knowing just how hard it is to win every time out, and never have that letdown against a good opponent.

I think anyone who does this weights the various factors differently, and in a somewhat muddled year, like this one, you wind up with different number ones.

But I will say this: I don't think I've ever ranked a team No. 1 that lost a game by 24 points, as Clovis did, or even 17, as St. John's College did. If you're the best team in the nation, my feeling would be that even if you lose, it should be close.

Then again, that's weighting one factor more heavily than another, and that's another unavoidable byproduct of any system, pretty much.

Even if one wants to punish CW regardless to them beating Centennial first by double digits there is no excuse to prevent MCD who was by far more tested than Riverdale from being number 1 before Riverdale. Riverdale decided to skip the TOC or any challenges just to go undefeated and they get rewarded? MCD had only 1 loss in the TOC championship game to Clovis West. And Grandview loss only once in overtime to MCD @ the TOC? They too, along with 10 or so others, should be ahead of untested Riverdale.

As I ranked it, there are just too many good teams that have been tested to put an untested Riverdale above them, and #1 shouldn't even be an option for Riverdale. Truthfully I was being kind to rank them as high as I did. Just being me. And many say.... I'm too nice, smile.

Just curious to why if going undefeated places you above others, why wasn't Monacan #2, and Elk River #3, Destrahan #4, on USA Today and Max Prep, since like Riverdale they also went undefeated?

I agree no system is perfect, but some come a lot closer than others at getting it right IMO.

I guess that is why there are several ranking systems.

 

[Paytc]

Here is the USA Today Final Top Ten:

1. Riverdale; 2. St. John's College; 3. Paul VI; 4. Centennial; 5. Clovis West; 6. Miami Country Day; 7. Monacan; 8. Grandview; 9. Mitty; 10. Duncanville.

Long Beach Poly is No.12.

In my opinion the only thing they may have gotten right was putting CW slightly ahead of MCD. It looks similar to Max Prep...... perhaps they see things the same or talked it over? Interesting..........Thanks for sharing.

 

[Paytc]

espnW 25 Power Rankings: Final

Year:
Week:

• RECOMMEND0
• TWEET0

Clovis West played the best and beat the best. The team that celebrated its first California state title last month can celebrate its first national title today.



After suffering an early loss to Archbishop Mitty in Hawaii, the Golden Eagles cruised through the Nike Tournament of Champions in December, beating No. 3 St. John's College by 17, No. 2 Centennial by 15, previously ranked St. Mary's (Stockton) by five and No. 4 Miami Country Day by 22.

The Golden Eagles, featuring five seniors who have signed to play Division I, then became the first Central Section team to win California's top prize. Clovis West's history was so sparse, in fact, that the school had just four entries in the 52-page program for the state championships, and two of those were for the boys' program.



The senior class, featuring Sarah Bates, Danae Marquez, Bre'yanna Sanders, Megan Anderson and Tess Amundsen, leaves Clovis West with a 117-15 record, four section titles, one state title and one national title.



-- Dan Olson



espnW 25 Power Rankings: Final

1 Clovis West (34-2)
Fresno, CA
--

Last Week: 1 A tight win over Archbishop Mitty in the final game of the epic season made Clovis West the Nike Tournament of Champions champions, CIF Open Division state champions and espnW champions. Congratulations are so in order.
2 Centennial (30-2)
Las Vegas, NV
--

Last Week: 2 It was truly an epic season for Centennial, which is the only team on the planet other than Archbishop Mitty that can say it beat the national champions. In addition to some superb national wins, Centennial claimed its third straight Nevada state title. Centennial loses some impact seniors, including Nevada Gatorade player of the year Samantha Thomas(Arizona). But the dynasty appears to be in good hands with Justice Ethridge, Eboni Walker and Melanie Isbell returning.
3 Saint Johns College (31-2)
Washington, DC
--

Last Week: 3 Aisha Sheppard is off to Virginia Tech after helping St. John's College to a Washington Catholic Athletic Conference title and the Washington, D.C. city championship. St. John's College took two out of three games against rival Paul VI. The only other loss was to No. 1 Clovis West.
4 Country Day School (31-1)
Miami, FL

1

Last Week: 5 Oh Maria! Miami Country Day won the Dick's Sporting Goods nationals with an 81-55 win over Tennessee's Hamilton Heights in the final. Sophomore guard Maria Alvarez scored 26 points, including eight 3-pointers, in 27 minutes. Senior Kelsey Marshall (Miami) added 23. Fellow senior superstar Channise Lewis had seven points, six rebounds and 10 assists. Lewis, who signed with Illinois, has reopened her recruitment.




5 Paul VI (32-2)
Fairfax, VA

1

Last Week: 4 We're starting to get used to this kind of season from Paul VI, which claimed its 11th consecutive VISAA championship. The only two losses were to No. 3 St. John's College. You'll be seeing Mikayla Vaughn at Notre Dame next season. Amira Collins and Ashley Owusu are back.
6 Duncanville (39-2)
Duncanville, TX
--

Last Week: 6 Duncanvville won its second straight Texas state title, and MVP Zarielle Green will try to make it three in a row next season. Aniya Thomas and Starr Jacobs also return.
7 Grandview (27-1)
Aurora, CO
--

Last Week: 7 Seasons don't get much better than the one Michaela Onyenwere just had. The UCLA-bound senior led Grandview to its first state title, was named the Gatorade player of the year for the third straight season and played at the McDonald's All American Games.




8 Riverdale (34-0)
Murfreesboro, TN
--

Last Week: 8 Anastasia Hayes is off to Tennessee after leading Riverdale to its second straight state title and an undefeated season. She leaves the team in the amazing hands of junior twins Alexis Whittington and Amanda Whittington as well as her own kid sisters, sophomore Aislynn Hayes and freshman Alasia Hayes.
9 Archbishop Mitty (28-3)
San Jose, CA
--

Last Week: 9 Archbishop Mitty came within five minutes of a state title, but fell 44-40 to No. 1 Clovis West in the CIF Open Division final. Mitty had beaten Clovis West in overtime in December in Hawaii. Sophomore Haley Jones, who had a double-double (11 points and 10 rebounds) in the loss, returns.
10 Monacan (30-0)
Richmond, VA

1

Last Week: 11 With her third state title and a perfect season in the bag, Megan Walker is off to Connecticut.




11 Hamilton Heights Christian Academy (29-2)
Chattanooga, TN

1

Last Week: 10 Hamilton Heights beat St. Frances 56-55 in overtime in the first round of the Dick's Sporting Goods nationals. A barrage of 3-pointers from Miami Country Day in the final was too much to overcome. Elite talent returns in the form of Elizabeth Balogun and Jazmine Massengill.




12 Long Beach Polytechnic (27-4)
Long Beach, CA
--

Last Week: 12 McDonald's All American Ayanna Clark and Long Beach Poly came up just short against Clovis West in the CIF semifinals.




13 Mesquite (31-1)
Gilbert, AZ
--

Last Week: 13 Mesquite won its first state title in school history, and junior Shaylee Gonzales, the Gatorade player of the year, will be back.
14 Canyon (31-3)
Canyon, TX
--

Last Week: 14 Propelled by undeclared senior Angel Hayden, Canyon won its fourth straight state championship with a win over Timberview.
15 Timberview (37-3)
Mansfield, TX
--

Last Week: 15 The flashy Chennedy Carter is off to Aggie land.
16 Seton Catholic (29-4)
Chandler, AZ

Argyle, TX. 37-2, Cypress Ranch, TX. 32-7,St. Frances Academy, MD. 30-2,Franklin, NJ. 25-7,Fayetteville, AR. 30-2, Ribault, FL. 26-3, McEachern, GA. 26-6, Elk River, MN. 32-0, Rutgers Prep, NJ. 30-2 top 25 on ESPNW list.

I guess Dan Olsen appreciates my list as his is in agreement on several things. Dan got it a lot closer to right than most established media sources IMO. Glad I got my list together early Monday and posted shortly afterwards.

Congratulations Clovis West !
--

 

[Willtalk]

That's a good point ... no system is perfect, in anything, and I would say mine gives higher value to going unbeaten than do others. Maybe that reflects my experience as a coach, and knowing just how hard it is to win every time out, and never have that letdown against a good opponent.
.

The key statement is " against a good opponent. The fewer GOOD opponents you play the less likely a let down will cost you a win. A top flight team can have a let down against another team that is not in the upper tier and still pull out a win. Paytc makes good points about your lack of consistency in your system. I am pretty much on board with you most of the time except when it comes to your rational for your picks.. As you can guess i feel that if you want to be rated the top team you better have played a few other really good teams. There is no law where you have to make an undefeated team the top pick. As Paytc pointed out there are always undefeated teams that do not even make the top. So the fact is that being undefeated without other factors really means very little.

 

[ClayK]

Of course there are other factors -- Riverdale did play some quality opponents (Tennessee was much tougher than Nevada, for example) and Elk River and Destrehan did not play any teams out of state, nor do they have as many elite players as Riverdale.

If I were Centennial, I'd be upset at being behind a team I beat by 24 in their home state -- especially since Centennial didn't get to sleep at home, and played a game Saturday against SMS, while Clovis West rested.

But Clovis is very good. Riverdale is very good. MCD is very good. Mitty is very good. Paul VI is very good. St. John's is very good.

You pays yer money and you takes yer choice ...

 

[Paytc]

Of course there are other factors -- Riverdale did play some quality opponents (Tennessee was much tougher than Nevada, for example) and Elk River and Destrehan did not play any teams out of state, nor do they have as many elite players as Riverdale.

If I were Centennial, I'd be upset at being behind a team I beat by 24 in their home state -- especially since Centennial didn't get to sleep at home, and played a game Saturday against SMS, while Clovis West rested.

But Clovis is very good. Riverdale is very good. MCD is very good. Mitty is very good. Paul VI is very good. St. John's is very good.

You pays yer money and you takes yer choice ...

I think Centennial was happy to get a rematch. Just shows quality teams can beat quality teams when given a chance or two. Key words there " Quality teams and given a chance" Who gave who another chance? And who( Riverdale) gave no one really when we talk about the top 20 teams given a chance to play them. Centennial is also smart enough to know they can't be ahead of a team they split with who had a tougher SOS. Or one like MCD who was in the same tournament as Centennial (as were the TOC champions CW) the TOC and placed higher than they did. Tournament play when unfamiliar trumps one game play especially when CW beat Centennial by close to 20 first. Just to refresh your memory, Clovis West was winning 50 to 24 (26 points lead) going into the 4th quarter before they had pity on Centennial and relaxed to make it a bit more respectable.

Then CW completed the season beating previous #1 Mitty. Who really took on and accomplished more than Clovis West? That is why they are the national champs.

In my book it was either CW or MCD. Centennial as you said had a weak state so were they really tested in their state championship game? CW played tough teams and won or came in runner up in tough tournaments all season long, hard to top that, that's why no one did.

But the initial conversation was why is Riverdale ranked #1 so lets re-direct the focus back there. I agree all the teams you mentioned are good teams. Why are Monacan, Destrehan,and Elk River, who are all undefeated not ranked #2 , #3, and #4 ? And Murry (not even a top 25 team took Riverdale to O.T.) Just try to imagine Riverdale playing in one of the nation's toughest tournaments? Or against even 1 top 10 team? Or even one top 20 team?

We have different priorities on judging criteria that fact is true. Have an awesome day !

Congratulations to Clovis West on not dodging anyone and an outstanding season.

 

[colhenrylives]

Of course there are other factors -- Riverdale did play some quality opponents (Tennessee was much tougher than Nevada, for example) and Elk River and Destrehan did not play any teams out of state, nor do they have as many elite players as Riverdale.

If I were Centennial, I'd be upset at being behind a team I beat by 24 in their home state -- especially since Centennial didn't get to sleep at home, and played a game Saturday against SMS, while Clovis West rested.

But Clovis is very good. Riverdale is very good. MCD is very good. Mitty is very good. Paul VI is very good. St. John's is very good.

You pays yer money and you takes yer choice ...

Absolutely. Ratings are a crapshoot and subjective. None is perfect.

 

[Paytc]

Thank you to all who have responded. We on the West coast, and California in particular, should be proud of our own representatives such as Clovis West, Mitty, LBP, Winward, SMS, and CN. And other teams like Centennial that did a great job this season representing the West coast and girls basketball world-wide.

Congratulations to them all !

 

[ClayK]

The consensus: https://passthaball.com/2017/04/06/pass-tha-ball-prep-polls-st-johns-emerges/

 

[Paytc]

The consensus: https://passthaball.com/2017/04/06/pass-tha-ball-prep-polls-st-johns-emerges/

Now the readers should just use their own brains based on what they know, and all the information given, to figure out who they would rank #1.