Here's a general question to ponder...

[kiddman32]

WTF is up (well, down) with hoops attendance??

examples: At the NorCal tip-off at Newark Memorial, they never had the need to open the upstairs bleachers, not even all that close... Most years, that big gym's lower part would be full for at least the marquee games, and a decent number in the bleachers up top.

Yesterday at Sheldon, they never had more than two or three hundred spectators at a time until the last two games, and even for the Sheldon game, the gym was maybe a bit more than two-thirds full. The last couple games last year, the place was almost completely packed.

The Jesuit gym was practically empty when they faced Sheldon last week... And so on and so on...

Only a few exceptions: Gridley was almost as crowded as it always is despite all the real-life difficulties they had up there this time around, and the Campo at Miramonte game was darn-near full...

But in general gyms have been near-empty all over.

Anyway, I'd just like to see what y'all think... I have some factors in mind, I'll share them after this has been pondered upon for awhile...

 

[Jaw Knee]

Games being streamed is probably a huge factor. Kids now a days also stay home and socialize through social media instead of live interaction.

 

[vukovich]

Games being streamed is probably a huge factor. Kids now a days also stay home and socialize through social media instead of live interaction.

Been progressively getting worst the last 5+years. Students don't really attend games unless it's a neighborhood rivalry. Only basketball junkies at games now.

 

[jordan24]

Kiddmann, MLK weekend might have something to do with it...WCAL games have been well attended, at least the ones I’ve seen. Check out the Crusader Forum - Serra, Bellarmine and SI will be visiting in the next few weeks. Should be some good crowds.

 

[Cranky29er]

I agree with the comment that the students aren’t as into it as maybe in the 80s and 90s. That was my day and games were packed. Student sections down for sure these days. Streamed the SI/SF game with my lad instead of going...great decision as that game was brutal. Streaming is a great option.

Gate fee of $5-$7 isn’t too bad, but may keep folks away for a mediocre opponent. Some schools don’t charge at all...that is nice.

 

[Bitter Branson Fan]

watching kids grow up with phones and computers with high-speed internet - and never knowing what life was like without it -makes me wonder how any of them still explore and dedicate themselves to sports and musical instruments and art in 2019.

 

[cherylbaustin]

WTF is up (well, down) with hoops attendance??
examples: At the NorCal tip-off at Newark

Memorial, they never had the need to open the upstairs bleachers, not even all that close... Most years, that big gym's lower part would be full for at least the marquee games, and a decent number in the bleachers up top.

Yesterday at Sheldon, they never had more than two or three hundred spectators at a time until the last two games, and even for the Sheldon game, the gym was maybe a bit more than two-thirds full. The last couple games last year, the place was almost completely packed.

The Jesuit gym was practically empty when they faced Sheldon last week... And so on and so on...

Only a few exceptions: Gridley was almost as crowded as it always is despite all the real-life difficulties they had up there this time around, and the Campo at Miramonte game was darn-near full...

But in general gyms have been near-empty all over.

Anyway, I'd just like to see what y'all think... I have some factors in mind, I'll share them after this has been pondered upon for awhile...

Maybe because of the MLK holiday, many from folks leave town?

 

[cherylbaustin]

Maybe because of the MLK holiday, many folks leave town?

 

[kiddman32]

I am talking about game attendance in general, not just this weekend.

 

[iamgearyblvd]

I am talking about game attendance in general, not just this weekend.

95%-98% of people dont care about high school hoops or high school sports for that matter like you do. There is no value in attending an event for people that dont have a relative playing. If you're relying on students to fill the stands, I can assure you those students rather be doing something else.

 

[Jaw Knee]

watching kids grow up with phones and computers with high-speed internet - and never knowing what life was like without it -makes me wonder how any of them still explore and dedicate themselves to sports and musical instruments and art in 2019.

Parents have to play a role in this. We have to expose them to different things. Both my kids played every sport until they decided on their own which one they liked best. Also put them in piano, violin, dance and martial arts for a few years.

 

[Renard Monroe]

Parents have to play a role in this. We have to expose them to different things. Both my kids played every sport until they decided on their own which one they liked best. Also put them in piano, violin, dance and martial arts for a few years.

Exactly, I have two boys and girl...my eldest settled with Football, my middle settled with basketball, my youngest is heavily involved with dance, but we exposed them to theater, soccer, baseball, band, gymnastics, etc...

 

[youseechief]

I think part of it is the commute. Most people don’t work in the city where their child attends school. There could be less of a community feel because of that which means that many people have no attachment to the kids playing.
Streaming definitely has an impact. Why drive to moraga this weekend? I can be there via the internet and still go out of town or participate in other activities.
The gyms will be full in March. Too bad most wont get to experience it.

 

[ayalar09]

I noticed at the last Stuart Hall/university game there were a ton of people there. So many that it overflowed, but The knights have a small gym like University, so maybe we can’t judge based on those two teams.

In terms of students, nowadays the pressure to succeed in school is so high, that I think many students focus on their work and could care less about the sports teams. Also the one thing with basketball is it is wedged between so many days off for Xmas, New Years, MLK day today, and Spring Break, that a lot of times the students aren’t even around to attend the games.

 

[ankleassassin]

i am still wondering how you have so much free time to be at every event?!?!? you must have side chicks in every district!!!!
i think since all a sudden everyone is a warriors fan they spend all their money on tickets to see their warriors play and have no money left to attend local high school game

 

[cherylbaustin]

95%-98% of people dont care about high school hoops or high school sports for that matter like you do. There is no value in attending an event for people that dont have a relative playing. If you're relying on students to fill the stands, I can assure you those students rather be doing something else.

Ok

 

[meezymo]

I am watching the live stream of all the games at MLK. For $9.95 I can watch hoop, fold clothes and cook. I think with so many games live streamed it probably cuts into attendance. I

 

[mansnothot]

Video games. Snap chat. Instagram.
YouTube. All the highlights in 4k. It's like you was there.

 

[coach41]

I think there are various factors. In the SF AAA - most of the larger schools (aka Lincoln, Lowell, Washington) will draw crowds. Most of them will be parents, family or fellow students since you have on campus games. The bigger schools usually have a good school spirit.

The smaller schools don't draw a ton of fans but you'll get a few here and there.

The other factor is if the boys / girls are playing a double header at the school or is there just a single game If you have a double header (or QUAD in the PAL), you'll likely get a decent number of fans.

I can't really speak for the private schools except for a game this past Friday. There were a good number of fans there and girls from both teams were present and watching.

 

[da real]

In addition to the streaming, I think it is a couple of factors.

Talent in the bay area is down.

In the last couple of years, showcase events have more private school teams that public school teams. Generally speaking most private schools have smaller base of fans than public schools. Also because of the transfers, most public schools rarely are representative of the actual city/school district. That impacts the support from casual supporters of the city.

Also now events like the Newark tipoff or De la salle mlk events have teams from out of the area, and those teams rarely travel well.

 

[mansnothot]

In addition to the streaming, I think it is a couple of factors.

Talent in the bay area is down.

In the last couple of years, showcase events have more private school teams that public school teams. Generally speaking most private schools have smaller base of fans than public schools. Also because of the transfers, most public schools rarely are representative of the actual city/school district. That impacts the support from casual supporters of the city.

Also now events like the Newark tipoff or De la salle mlk events have teams from out of the area, and those teams rarely travel well.

I was gonna ask who are the top ranked kids around the draw the crowds?

 

[youseechief]

I am watching the live stream of all the games at MLK. For $9.95 I can watch hoop, fold clothes and cook. I think with so many games live streamed it probably cuts into attendance. I

Yup

 

[ballinplayin365]

watching kids grow up with phones and computers with high-speed internet - and never knowing what life was like without it -makes me wonder how any of them still explore and dedicate themselves to sports and musical instruments and art in 2019.

I'm not sure if you know this, but there is a big creative renaissance going on. Kids are actually becoming more interested in the arts, traditional and new media. Technology has allowed more kids to have a greater access to art(and artists).


Speaking for me personally, its streaming. I was going to go to the sheldon v jesuit game, but instead went to the kings v Portland game. I was able to stream the game in between quarters and half time. I've actually seen almost every sheldon game this year simply because they have a dedicated camera guy streaming through their Facebook page. Also, games that are packed, I'd rather watch at home than be clumped in a hot gym with lots of kids.

As far as student attendance, kids as are going. Maybe not flocking to midweek games, but Friday night games get solid crowds. Sheldon @ Franklin was packed, and there have been many games I've seen online with good crowds.

 

[CityVibesII]

95%-98% of people dont care about high school hoops or high school sports for that matter like you do. There is no value in attending an event for people that dont have a relative playing. If you're relying on students to fill the stands, I can assure you those students rather be doing something else.

That has been true at SHC for thirty years. Very little school spirit for sporting events other than the SI SHC game. Different era. Back 30-40 years ago, if you went out to SH, you hung out with SH kids, SI with SI kids and Riordan with Riordan kids. Having the schools go co-ed really broke down the barriers. When it was all City catholic all-boys school and before internet, nothing else to do. Driving regulations on teens have also played a part. If you want to find the SHC kids you have to go to the Grove. The crowd at VC/SHC game - I've seen bigger crowds at CYO games in The City. Very little dialogue between the kids in different sports as most play one sport year-around. With games on youtube now, even I have chosen to stay home. I still see in some East Bay communities good student crowds, but again, what else is there to do?

SI, tough for the kids in Marin and down peninsula to make it up for weekday games. Riordan has a good crowd but a lot of that is due to band - they take up a lot of space. But no organized cheering section. Forum still the best place to watch a high school game in person in The City.

 

[cityfan]

That has been true at SHC for thirty years. Very little school spirit for sporting events other than the SI SHC game. Different era. Back 30-40 years ago, if you went out to SH, you hung out with SH kids, SI with SI kids and Riordan with Riordan kids. Having the schools go co-ed really broke down the barriers. When it was all City catholic all-boys school and before internet, nothing else to do. Driving regulations on teens have also played a part. If you want to find the SHC kids you have to go to the Grove. The crowd at VC/SHC game - I've seen bigger crowds at CYO games in The City. Very little dialogue between the kids in different sports as most play one sport year-around. With games on youtube now, even I have chosen to stay home. I still see in some East Bay communities good student crowds, but again, what else is there to do?

SI, tough for the kids in Marin and down peninsula to make it up for weekday games. Riordan has a good crowd but a lot of that is due to band - they take up a lot of space. But no organized cheering section. Forum still the best place to watch a high school game in person in The City.

Riordan band = Riordan students, but yes, no real organized cheering section.

 

[iamgearyblvd]

That has been true at SHC for thirty years. Very little school spirit for sporting events other than the SI SHC game. Different era. Back 30-40 years ago, if you went out to SH, you hung out with SH kids, SI with SI kids and Riordan with Riordan kids. Having the schools go co-ed really broke down the barriers. When it was all City catholic all-boys school and before internet, nothing else to do. Driving regulations on teens have also played a part. If you want to find the SHC kids you have to go to the Grove. The crowd at VC/SHC game - I've seen bigger crowds at CYO games in The City. Very little dialogue between the kids in different sports as most play one sport year-around. With games on youtube now, even I have chosen to stay home. I still see in some East Bay communities good student crowds, but again, what else is there to do?

SI, tough for the kids in Marin and down peninsula to make it up for weekday games. Riordan has a good crowd but a lot of that is due to band - they take up a lot of space. But no organized cheering section. Forum still the best place to watch a high school game in person in The City.

Hey on the flip side, low attendance could possibly help the athlete focus more on the game. There are distractions in the crowd.

 

[berdooman]

I have no theory on this subject but have noticed with WCAL teams that, unlike the 1960s and 70's, the schools don't have a collection of set cheers that they perform throughout the game. No doubt these have been lost over the years. There are still some big cheering sections, but mostly they chant what they've heard during college games like "Underrated" and "You can't do that" and "Fun-da-mentals."

 

[Coach Brown]

It's actually happening everywhere over the last 15 years. Noticed NBL attendance is way down comparatively, and not just in basketball.
School social activities are just not necessary (in the eyes of students) any more. People didn't go to dances or football games to dance or watch football. They come to socialize. Social media now accomplishes this task without leaving home (Ukiah no longer has dances except for MORP, Prom, Winter Ball).
Athlete's are so specialized now that the multiple sport athletes no longer draw people to big events. Three sport athletes are almost non-existent up here and many of those players brought lots of friends and family.
Other in-school options draw students to non-academic competitions that often take students away from athletic competitions. We have students that are often away on Friday nights at Robotics or Comp Sci or Science of the Mind, or one of the other dozen academic/vocational competitions.
Outside of major urban areas, streaming has minimal or no impact.
High school sports were never about the sports to the students, it was about the socialization. That's not really necessary any more.

 

[Bitter Branson Fan]

I'm not sure if you know this, but there is a big creative renaissance going on. Kids are actually becoming more interested in the arts, traditional and new media. Technology has allowed more kids to have a greater access to art(and artists).

I'm sure you have some anecdotal evidence like the high school your kids go to has an alternative program within the school for kids to skip general education and instead go to Technocultural Studies class all day, which is really YouTube Creator Class. I think but don't know that studies would say American kids are stupider and fatter than ever. Not to just blame it on kids, adults are probably stupider and fatter than ever too.

 

[CityVibesII]

I have no theory on this subject but have noticed with WCAL teams that, unlike the 1960s and 70's, the schools don't have a collection of set cheers that they perform throughout the game. No doubt these have been lost over the years. There are still some big cheering sections, but mostly they chant what they've heard during college games like "Underrated" and "You can't do that" and "Fun-da-mentals."

In the WCAL co-ed atmosphere you have a change from predominately male teachers to at minimum 50/50 ratio. Some cheers at the all boy atmosphere used to get away with are not encouraged anymore. The SI Budweiser cheer, the Sacred Heart beer song and Riordan Wrecking Crew was always good for a great comeback cheer- no way you can get away with that anymore. Ticket Lines at Kezar for basketball during the 70s went out to the street. Hard cheers with a lot of hard drinking (beer was drug of choice back then). The Block Club was always in front row and a priest or Christian Brother sat in front row and stood up when cheers went over the line. Boys were in cheering section and girls from what seemed like 100 catholic girl schools sat in the section on either side. Guys who sat with their girlfriend were rided by their classmates and eventually pulled in by a Block Club member. At halftimes at games at Kezar, the Block Club of the respective City boy schools would line the perimeter of the court at halftimes to keep people off. There actually used to be a league Spirit Award handed out at end of football and basketball season in WCAL. They finally retired it to SH as they always won it but all City schools cheering sections were legit. Sacred Heart even had a school band who played Top 40 during the 70s. Maybe felt bad for them as their football and basketball teams were not very good. Also the alma mater was sung home and away regardless of win or loss. Serra is the closet to keeping a decent cheering section alive and Riordan still does their alma mater win or lose at home games.

Finally, lets add a little perspective. in the 60s and 70s there were only 6 t.v. channels: KTVU, KRON, KPIX, KGO, Channel 9 and if you were lucky, UHF 20 and 44.

 

[cityfan]

In the WCAL co-ed atmosphere you have a change from predominately male teachers to at minimum 50/50 ratio. Some cheers at the all boy atmosphere used to get away with are not encouraged anymore. The SI Budweiser cheer, the Sacred Heart beer song and Riordan Wrecking Crew was always good for a great comeback cheer- no way you can get away with that anymore. Ticket Lines at Kezar for basketball during the 70s went out to the street. Hard cheers with a lot of hard drinking (beer was drug of choice back then). The Block Club was always in front row and a priest or Christian Brother sat in front row and stood up when cheers went over the line. Boys were in cheering section and girls from what seemed like 100 catholic girl schools sat in the section on either side. Guys who sat with their girlfriend were rided by their classmates and eventually pulled in by a Block Club member. At halftimes at games at Kezar, the Block Club of the respective City boy schools would line the perimeter of the court at halftimes to keep people off. There actually used to be a league Spirit Award handed out at end of football and basketball season in WCAL. They finally retired it to SH as they always won it but all City schools cheering sections were legit. Sacred Heart even had a school band who played Top 40 during the 70s. Maybe felt bad for them as their football and basketball teams were not very good. Also the alma mater was sung home and away regardless of win or loss. Serra is the closet to keeping a decent cheering section alive and Riordan still does their alma mater win or lose at home games.

Finally, lets add a little perspective. in the 60s and 70s there were only 6 t.v. channels: KTVU, KRON, KPIX, KGO, Channel 9 and if you were lucky, UHF 20 and 44.

Ahhh, the good ol' days! You brought back some great Kezar Pavilion/USF memories, 'Vibe! I do remember the SH and SI bands, too - SI with the Budweiser song, SH band playing "We're here -SH is here!" - good times!

 

[coachlittle]

social media , video games , parents .

 

[kiddman32]

Plenty of interesting discussion in this thread... I came back just now because I was just looking at the Daily Dose (Kevin McCarthy's page) and spotted a link there to an article in BYU's campus paper that wondered "where were all the fans?" at WCC games.

So, in addition to all the other input on here, I guess we can note that hoops attendance in general is down just about everywhere except at NBA and major-conference level rather than just high school. Of course there are occasional exceptions, but yup, attendance is down.

One of the reasons listed by a few people here is that streaming games has kept them home... I don't get that at all. Even the greatest super-high-quality stream captures only a tiny bit of the excitement of actually being in the gym at a game. Only thing streaming does for me is... I can watch replays of MORE games after I get home from a live game

 

[larry legend33]

How do you explain HS football then? Its still the biggest ticket in town. The SFL games are packed and atmosphere is incredible. I know other leagues/divisions are the same. Is it the # of games in hoops? HS football is 1x a week almost always on a Friday night. Sometimes in hoops you have huge league games on a Tuesday night. Plenty of reasons to miss that.
I also think the social side of it has changed. Kids use to hang out at the malls. Now they play fortnite on computers. Here is a crazy stat. # of kids having sex and teenage birth rate at all time low. Lack of socialization and physical interaction has changed big time.

 

[Cranky29er]

I got chills remembering the games at Kezar. Packed houses, smoke in the rafters, middle 2 sections students top to bottom. I’m a SI grad, but the absolute best band was Riordan. Best scene was when the xylophone player walked out to center court, set up his rig and played his 3 notes.

It’s a different day. Not better not worse just different.

 

[CityVibesII]

I got chills remembering the games at Kezar. Packed houses, smoke in the rafters, middle 2 sections students top to bottom. I’m a SI grad, but the absolute best band was Riordan. Best scene was when the xylophone player walked out to center court, set up his rig and played his 3 notes.

It’s a different day. Not better not worse just different.

Yes, the xylophone player. Classic. Yes, I forgot the song, but it built to a grand cresendo while the xylophone player standing there cracking his knuckles, stretched, checked his finger nails, ending with the xylophone three notes.

The SI band director was this skinny nerdy guy horn rim glasses that really got into the Budweiser song cheer.

 

[OneDNA]

I got chills remembering the games at Kezar. Packed houses, smoke in the rafters, middle 2 sections students top to bottom. I’m a SI grad, but the absolute best band was Riordan. Best scene was when the xylophone player walked out to center court, set up his rig and played his 3 notes.

It’s a different day. Not better not worse just different.

Yes, the xylophone player. Classic. Yes, I forgot the song, but it built to a grand cresendo while the xylophone player standing there cracking his knuckles, stretched, checked his finger nails, ending with the xylophone three notes.

The SI band director was this skinny nerdy guy horn rim glasses that really got into the Budweiser song cheer.

Absolutely! Besides the play of the Rabbits on the court, the Band was the other of my earliest memories of Riordan. And that end of the 3rd qrtr Xylophone solo (albeit 3 tunes) was great!!! Maz would have that place rockin to start when they came into Louie Louie, which I believe they still do. But as mentioned previously was just a different atmosphere then.

 

[ayalar09]

I think anyone that wants to see two fun student sections, should attend the University/Stuart Hall game next week. University has a small gym, so I suggest arriving 30-45 min early and taking in the end of the JV game in order to get a seat.

I can guarantee it will be standing room only and that gym will be loud and people will be standing shoulder to shoulder.

 

[ballinplayin365]

I'm sure you have some anecdotal evidence like the high school your kids go to has an alternative program within the school for kids to skip general education and instead go to Technocultural Studies class all day, which is really YouTube Creator Class. I think but don't know that studies would say American kids are stupider and fatter than ever. Not to just blame it on kids, adults are probably stupider and fatter than ever too.

@Bitter Branson Fan My anecdotal evidence comes from being involved in the arts, going to a lot of art events, and being part of an organization that's hosts art and music events. As the years go on, the youngest age groups have more representation year after year. I dont doubt the studies you spoke of, but keep in kind the arts are rarely a refuge for the most athletic or academically gifted(something that's changing as well). It traditionally is a place for those who fall in the middle of that spectrum. I'm not going to get too in-depth about tech and art, but it's much more than creating youtube videos. Quick example is the availability of digital drawing tablets. Maybe a family cant afford to constantly buy art supplies, but a one time investment( cost can be as low as $30)in a digital drawing tablet can allow a kid the opportunity to explore their creativity while finding out If its something they truly enjoy. Like i said, tech has increased access.

Back to basketball.

 

[Positive Influence]

Here's my take for what it's worth...The attendance at high school events has been in decline obviously over the last 5-6 years. I think it's because going to a game is more of a social event for kids. 85-90% of the kids even as far back as the 80's would go simply to see their friends and to hang out with very little interest in the contest itself. With the advent of social media those kids don't need the game or event to satisfy their "social" needs anymore. They simply go to their phones now to hang out.