Mater Dei
- Thread starter NorCalHSFan
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pay for kids to come other counties to go to their school and provide them transport to do so.....I don’t think Upland can get a kid to transfer from Long Beach and then arrange a van to drive to Long Beach everyday to bring him to Upland
Here's an example that goes way, way back in time: Early in the 1960s, the AAA in San Francisco was thriving as a public school league that included two old parochials, St. Ignatius and Sacred Heart, both all-male at the time. However, there was increasing concern among the publics that the two Catholics (particularly SI) were increasingly relying on non-SF kids to bolster their athletic teams. The publics felt that was an unfair advantage because they aren't allowed to do that. It got to the point where the league's honchos decided to place a tight, restrictive cap on the number of non-SF players a team could have. SI said it could not abide by that new rule as it was drawing more and more students from Marin and San Mateo counties. In 1967, it had to leave the AAA and join the new WCAL; SH followed shortly after that. Another example: Valley Christian in San Jose. It had been competing in a public school league in the South Bay until, finally, the publics got fed up and forced the Central Coast Section to move it to the WCAL (or MCAL the Mostly Catholic Athletic League) in 2002. Today, most of the WCAL schools have their own bus systems that transport students to and from schools far from their campuses. The football program at St. Francis in Mountain View is a regional affair; it's not local. Recently, the Lancers have included players from Pacifica and San Bruno to Morgan Hill and Gilroy and well into the East Bay. The program has a Bay Area-wide reach. Its public school neighbors don't. They are limited by strict rules that mandate they remain as neighborhood programs based primarily on geographic boundaries. In fact, a good number of districts discourage or even forbid transfers from outside their geographic limits because their finances are not based on enrollment but on finite property values. This is probably too much information. We can huff and puff and pretend it's otherwise, but this remains a case of apples and oranges pure and simple.
Hmmmm
Seems to me there’s a certain public school near Sacramento that has no problem getting kids from another state to come play for them.They also regularly get kids from private schools to come play for them.
If you’d told me the majority of Publics choose not to operate as private I would agree but can’t? I disagree
I agree with your logic, but unfortunately there is no fix for the real gap between public and private schools (at least in the bay.) Unless they go to separate public and private playoffs. And the privates have said in league meetings they would sue before letting that happen.
Two problems for the public schools is that they are being assaulted from within and from without.
From within the public admins and teachers (in many cases) would love the demise of some if not all sports in public schools. Less supervision, less headaches. It’s also philosophical in the sense that the anti “toxic masculinity” crowd detest football, wrestling and maybe a couple of other male sports they see as relics of the past.
From without you have the polar opposite which are private schools that are intentionally doing everything in their power to build strong athletic programs with the full support of their constituents. That’s not wrong but it is a real discrepancy that has to be addressed.
Your points are well-taken. Private/parochials wisely use their athletic programs to generate lots of publicity and marketing buzz and, hence, enrollment. Small wonder a man like Coach Patrick Walsh is considered vital to Serra's overall revenue picture (pupil tuition combined with alumni donations), both now and in the future.
any kid who leaves Long Beach to go to Upland should be drug tested
yeah it means their smoking that good ish
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Folsom. Who else? Let me know so I can run down the laundry list of private schools that do it. We'll start in the Sacramento area.
For shits and giggles, let's examine what Menlo-Atherton has done.
They put a fence around East Palo Alto and stopped letting the WCAL have a free for all on those guys. Within 4 years they went from being a 3-7 Bay Division Program with a head coach who is now at a WCAL school to sectional champs, state champs and one of the top destinations for college recruiters to visit in the entire state with a head coach they promoted from their JV team. They went from scheduling WCAL schools to not only beating them but they now play a national schedule.
Goes to show you how good some of these publics could be given an even playing field.
They put a fence around East Palo Alto and stopped letting the WCAL have a free for all on those guys. Within 4 years they went from being a 3-7 Bay Division Program with a head coach who is now at a WCAL school to sectional champs, state champs and one of the top destinations for college recruiters to visit in the entire state with a head coach they promoted from their JV team. They went from scheduling WCAL schools to not only beating them but they now play a national schedule.
Goes to show you how good some of these publics could be given an even playing field.
Add to that the support of the Administration, involved parents and the school located in one of the wealthiest areas in the Country.
DeLaSalle benefits to being the only Catholic Boys HS on the 680 corridor. Their reach extends as far south as Fremont to north of Martinez, to eastward into Antioch, Pittsburg and Brentwood and even as far west as Richmond.
I’ve known plenty of DLS kids (all sports) who lived as far southeast as Livermore as well. That 2nd Catholic HS proposed for Livermore that had been bantered about previously never materialized. If it ever happens, there’s a good chance HS football will cease to exist by the time the team is any good.
Of course it’s Folsom
The point is as a public they run similar to a private in how/where they obtain their talent
Public schools have plenty of money! They are just stingy with putting money into electives and extra curricular activities. That's why you don't see woodshop, auto shop, culinary programs, after school programs, or money consistently invested into sports programs. Private school capitalize on this. They have to find a niche and exploit it, especially since they are competing each and every semester to draw in new students. Public schools have a major advantage of having a built in feeder system of middle schools assigned to there jurisdiction. Every year they welcome in hundred of new freshman without paying a penny on marketing. Meanwhile Private schools have to hustle and be creative in order to draw in new students. And the few they do get, some people complain about it because they are Student-Athletes. It's universally agreed upon most public's don't care to invest in certain programs. Why be upset when a kid looks for a better opportunity else where. Public's average 1000-1500 students on campus. If you invest from the top down a lot of those current kids on campus would come out and play. So much untapped potential walking around these school, but no culture or enthusiasm in there sports programs to draw them in. Some of you are pointing your energy in the wrong direction. Blaming the kid or parent for wanting better opportunity or services. Blaming the new school or private school for offering better services or opportunity. While giving public schools a pass for providing crappy ass services (with our tax dollars). And somehow at the same time paint a picture that these public schools are being victimized. The true victims are these Student-Athletes that are being unfairly targeted and punished for pursing there dream.
BTW When was the last time a public school went bankrupt because they lost a few Student-Athletes to another school?
BTW When was the last time a public school went bankrupt because they lost a few Student-Athletes to another school?
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That's one school and nobody around these parts, other than marvel at the talent they collected, were taking what they did on the field as a representative of a level playing field. If there were a bunch of publics getting away with that level of player attraction then I would agree with you more completely. You are correct though that program did manage to do more in transfers than most every public in the state.
I don't like what they did up off Hwy 50, as they took that transfer game to a whole new level but its a reality now, as other schools are attracting in much smaller doses at some public programs
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Many school districts in the upper socioeconomic areas of the Bay Area have STRICT boundaries. So much that intra-district transfers are extremely highly regulated. They also eclipse most privates in their academic prowess...as they should. The above poster attempts to categorize all publics as equals. That’s like saying a Lambo is the same as a Miata because they both have wheels and an engine.
As far as sports, he’s right in that privates have to “hustle” for those students. LOL
As far as sports, he’s right in that privates have to “hustle” for those students. LOL
Another tidbit: High-property-value public districts pay their employees a lot more than other less blessed districts. As an example, a 15-year, full-time teacher in the South SF Unified District makes about 20-25 percent less than his or her peers in districts like Palo Alto Unified, Sequoia Union and San Mateo Union. That includes pensions and health insurance benefits.
If Liberty can get Sione Vaki from Antioch and James McNorton from crosstown rival Heritage and Justice Jackson from Moreau Catholic than any public school can position themselves to attract talent. It requires two things culture and coaching. Most coaches won't come to grips with the fact that they are being outcoached. Liberty has a freshman QB that is already on the national radar. There is no reason they can't keep the momentum of attracting talent and performing at a high level. I don't know of a single successful high school coach that points to other schools as the reason for the lack of success, but there are many unsuccessful coaches that do.
Swing on over to the West Bay where the WCAL is the goliath that gobbles talent from all over the region. It's the only all-private football league in NorCal.
So the WCAL is able to "gobble talent" with inferior culture and coaching? Or a school like M-A is able to compete with privates and get transfers from Sacred Heart like Raymond Price III after winning state?
Along with culture and coaching,I'd add the most important "c" word. Commitment. The commitment by the school administration and community to prioritize athletic success.
I would put that with culture. Most university Presidents have come to understand that when their sports programs(led by Football) are successful it creates a buzz around school and is easier to raise money for non-athletic ventures as well. I have been on both sides of public and private schools. Some principals at public schools realize their role not just as a Principal but as a community leader. However, since their budget comes from public funds most are less concerned with spirit raising and more with administration viewing athletics as costly and always a potential source of cost cutting. Private schools are always operating in the need to raise money and see more evidence of fundraising success tied to the success of their athletic programs. Academic success has to be there or people will not make the investment to send their kids to private school or should I say not enough to fund a school. It's fun and rewarding being on both sides public or private, as long as you remember the goal of raising young adults.
A fun little fact- Folsom was actually 2 or 3 in the SFL in most years in total # of football transfers, prior to 2017/2018 (Del Oro and Oak Ridge were often above the level of Folsom in that category). They started winning titles at the state level, and a decade's worth of sectional titles 7 years prior to that.
Point is this- a blanket statement that Folsom is run similar to a private school is incorrect. Many people on this forum will use this simply as an excuse to "explain away" the level of decade dominance- this is mostly from local posters mainly.
After nearly a decade of dominance, to which the SJS has never seen, and even some national exposure, you would expect talent to be attracted to such a program.
Anyone can say they are "run like a private," but until Folsom is able to attract players that can live where they want and "commute in," there will remain a distinguishable difference. Simply saying that players moved to Folsom to play there is a huge difference between the advantage of say.....Mater Dei. Besides- if we are going to ask these same public schools to compete against privates, under different sets of rules, we shouldn't be labeling or complaining about the way public's are ran.
Best example of this- MD gets a new star recruit QB from a completely different area. Twitter goes wild. National forums light up with excitement.
Any public (especially the few we always target) gets a star recruit from out of the area- everyone screams for investigations, calls CIF director, finger points, and accuses them of cheating.
Just some fun points for all.
I can tell you with pretty good authority that things changed pretty dramatically when they ran their long time AD out of the AD position and brought in a young MD alum who was the softball coach. This all happened after they lost to CC in the quarterfinals of the playoffs again in 2015. Things changed DRAMATICALLY.
Mr. 1315 good example. I like analogies. It doesn't matter to me what kind of car you drive. I'm just glad you and I have the freedom on choice to buy, rent, or lease whatever car you want from any dealer or private party you would like. No matter what car you select hopefully you have pride of ownership and take care of it. I couldn't imagine someone being excited to jump in a dirty car that leaks oil and makes an awful noises driving down the street. Some people treat their car so poorly, walking or catching the bus sounds a lot better. Just curious, not necessarily to just you, but anyone who can chime in. Two questions...
1. What justification is there for only targeting Student-Athletes?
And
2. What type of violation would a school employee have to break in order to receive a 5 week suspension with no play, excuse me I meant no pay?
1. What justification is there for only targeting Student-Athletes?
And
2. What type of violation would a school employee have to break in order to receive a 5 week suspension with no play, excuse me I meant no pay?
Yes. More like 10 to 15 percent or so, then escalates as experience/degrees really kicks in later. Bottom line: Tough for SSF (and Jefferson Union) to compete with lower Peninsula public districts.
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