This loss is squarely on the tech coach. Up 8 with less than 2 minutes left, you have the ball and take a quick shot. Paving the way for lucky shots and stupid fouls. They deserved to lose.
Tech-PV
- Thread starter Mustange76
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Putting time back on the clock after the shot with 1.7 seconds made no sense to me. There was no deflection or tip by the Tech defender. I went back and watched it to make sure. And if there had been, ball should’ve been out on the baseline where it went out. Would love to get an explanation.
I don’t know. I was in the gym. It was chaotic and the refs were inconsistent. It was tied with 0.5 left and AJ Gambol, a superb player got a shot up for the winning basket. I’ll have to review on NFHS to see if she got it off on time. But fans rushed the floor and it was effectively over.
You are correct. Plus the scorekeeper did not start the clock until after shot the airball. But again I return to the malpractice by the Tech coach. He robbed his girls of victory.
Tough to see clearly but she caught the pass off the bounce..then shot? That same play happened earlier in a college game today. Could be a video delay on the clock issue. Regardless, crazy things happen in PV gym. Ask UHS boys from a few years back.
Clock inset not synched with video. Here's what I think happened:
The clock did not properly start upon inbound, and the mid-court official recognizes it immediately and blows his whistle. This is important because if the half-court shot goes in and the clock never starts, it would be impossible to determine definitively if the shot was taken in 1.7 seconds or less. The home clock error COULD have benefitted the home team. Therefore, the official kills the play.
The crew estimates it took 1.2 seconds from catching inbound pass to blowing the whistle and administers in bound at the closest spot to where the player had the ball. This was absolutely the correct adjudication of this situation. If the initial heave went in, they would've wiped it off.
What a buzzer-beater. It deserves to be on ESPN's Top 10.
The clock did not properly start upon inbound, and the mid-court official recognizes it immediately and blows his whistle. This is important because if the half-court shot goes in and the clock never starts, it would be impossible to determine definitively if the shot was taken in 1.7 seconds or less. The home clock error COULD have benefitted the home team. Therefore, the official kills the play.
The crew estimates it took 1.2 seconds from catching inbound pass to blowing the whistle and administers in bound at the closest spot to where the player had the ball. This was absolutely the correct adjudication of this situation. If the initial heave went in, they would've wiped it off.
What a buzzer-beater. It deserves to be on ESPN's Top 10.
It’s pretty obvious it took more than 1.7 secs to catch the ball take a dribble and then turn and heaves up a half court shot. The game should have been over and went to OT. The home team made the error of not starting the clock on time . You cannot redo the situation. The ball went out of bounds . They should not have even gotten the ball back .this was not the correct call at all ..as far as blaming the tech coach , he had 2 huddles with the team in which I’m sure he communicated what needed to happen . The player with the ball made the choice multiple times to make bad decisions which no matter what will get the coach blamed. Horrible This doesn’t excuse the error of putting time back on the clock. I feel Horrible for Leroy and the tech girls .congrats to PV but I believe overtime was the way to go even if PV won. Some say tech deserved to lose because of the 8 point lead that was squandered . Hard to dispute , but should not have ended like that regardless . And if we are all being honest we agree that was a injustice
It's unfortunate it came down to that kind of timing decision, but there's not much anybody can do without access to video.
The officials have to make the best decision they can -- which the losing side will always disagree with -- and then let the game play out. One point: The girl had to make the shot, so I think some credit goes to her (and maybe not to the Tech defense) rather than all the focus on the timing.
The officials have to make the best decision they can -- which the losing side will always disagree with -- and then let the game play out. One point: The girl had to make the shot, so I think some credit goes to her (and maybe not to the Tech defense) rather than all the focus on the timing.
The game should have went to overtime . It leaves a bad taste in your mouth when the home team staff messes up by not starting the clock and benefits from it. The regulation period was over . Period
Just watched it on NFHS.
So I timed it on my phone, and it took 1.1 seconds for the girl to dribble and shoot. So 0.5 seconds was about right.
That said, a home town clock mistake led to a controversial finish.
Then again, Tech is up eight with six minutes to go, and up four with 28.8 seconds left shooting two free throws. They miss the free throws, commit a bad foul four seconds later (they win if they let the girl drive to the hoop uncontested), turn the ball over, give up an offensive rebound and foul again. Pleasant Valley makes all four free throws to tie the game with 7.6 left.
And how about some credit for that amazing game-winner? What a shot.
So I timed it on my phone, and it took 1.1 seconds for the girl to dribble and shoot. So 0.5 seconds was about right.
That said, a home town clock mistake led to a controversial finish.
Then again, Tech is up eight with six minutes to go, and up four with 28.8 seconds left shooting two free throws. They miss the free throws, commit a bad foul four seconds later (they win if they let the girl drive to the hoop uncontested), turn the ball over, give up an offensive rebound and foul again. Pleasant Valley makes all four free throws to tie the game with 7.6 left.
And how about some credit for that amazing game-winner? What a shot.
It’s hard to give credit to something that shouldn’t have taken place . With that being said . I did give credit to PV taking advantage of every mistake that tech made. Definitely questionable decisions and not sure what was going through the mind during some of those plays. But the clock was delayed and this is too big of a game to guess . The fair choice would have been the nuetral one which was to allow the gsme to be played out in ot . It would benefited PV to go to ot with jhai Johnson fouled out and how the momentum was flowing in PV direction was a huge advantage. But to say your just gonna put time back on the clock was a bad move . There is no way in hell that time didn’t go off the clock . She caught the ball and took a dribble and chucked it in the air. That’s more than 1.7 . And you said it took 1.1 . We won’t ever agree on that but great shot by gambol. Congrats to coach paddock
Watch it on NFHS and time it with your phone. I originally thought it was way more than 1.1 but it wasn't.
At one level, I agree that OT was the best answer. But we had the same thing in our game about the clock not starting, and the refs did exactly the same thing. It's pretty much a rulebook call -- you can't just ignore what you've done in every game all year long just because it's postseason.
In college and the NBA, they go to the video. They don't just pretend the mistake never happened.
At one level, I agree that OT was the best answer. But we had the same thing in our game about the clock not starting, and the refs did exactly the same thing. It's pretty much a rulebook call -- you can't just ignore what you've done in every game all year long just because it's postseason.
In college and the NBA, they go to the video. They don't just pretend the mistake never happened.
Clay, it was worse than that, the way Tech mismanaged the clock. They were up 8 with TWO MINUTES to play and had the ball with a full shot clock. A Tech player took a shot about three seconds later. Another possession, up 4, the same player rushes down the floor for another ill advised shot while the Tech coach sat passively on the bench. Where was the friggin’ STOP SIGN. The last two minutes was coaching malpractice — clock mismanagement, questionable officiating and lucky shots (including a banked 3) notwithstanding. He let his team down.
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BS!! Watched it, On the first attempt, from the time she caught the ball, took a dribble and heaved, with the ball in the air, I got 3.6 seconds.
Since they don’t have the luxury of a replay or any outside assistance, the officials should’ve used common sense and send the game to OT. Especially with a trip to Regional final on the line and a season ending for the losing team.
At worse, put 1.7 back in the clock and replay from where original inbound was.
Instead refs give them a do over with the ball advanced from baseline under the basket to sideline 10 feet from half court and 0.5 on the clock?!?!? Then, even with her making that great shot, you’re saying she caught the ball, jumped and got the shot off in a split second (0.5). The pros barely get that off with an inbound and tip. Straight BS!!
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In poker its called going on tilt...
And a certain player on OT definitely did just that in the last 30 secs.
I totally agree with this. And I’d like to ask everyone a question. Can you explain how if you do justify putting 0.5 seconds back on the clock can you explain why PV got the ball back? She shot the ball and it was NOT deflected or anything by tech. It went out of bounds . So why doesn’t tech get the ball back with the 0.5 seconds on the clock ?
Our Coach didn't tell the player to make a shot, that was a player decision. Please don't downplay the brilliance of our Coach for an overzealous player
Here's somthing to think about. All the Varsity are Sophmores and Juniors.
And there JV team went 20 and 4. They have a bright future.
Here's wishing you great hoops.
I just watched the last four minutes of the game...
One thing that hasn't been mentioned (that I've noticed on here, anyway), is that when the score was 62-60 in favor of Tech, PV's top scorer was fouled and four full seconds went off the clock. Nobody seemed to realize this, and of course this was a disadvantage to the home team since they were behind at that moment.
Those two FT's to tie it should have been at about 11.9, not 7.9. This would have given Tech a lot more time to run a play without hurrying. Not that they would have... The Tech assistant coach was constantly giving the "calm down" signal for the last couple minutes and I'm sure talking to them, and it hadn't worked thus far...
Basically, this game kinda needed a "do over", but you can't do that.
btw, fantastic game-winner!
One thing that hasn't been mentioned (that I've noticed on here, anyway), is that when the score was 62-60 in favor of Tech, PV's top scorer was fouled and four full seconds went off the clock. Nobody seemed to realize this, and of course this was a disadvantage to the home team since they were behind at that moment.
Those two FT's to tie it should have been at about 11.9, not 7.9. This would have given Tech a lot more time to run a play without hurrying. Not that they would have... The Tech assistant coach was constantly giving the "calm down" signal for the last couple minutes and I'm sure talking to them, and it hadn't worked thus far...
Basically, this game kinda needed a "do over", but you can't do that.
btw, fantastic game-winner!
Great question. I used to officiate high school ball 25 years ago. Honestly have not read the rule book lately as close as I should. That’s on me. Now I coach and I’m thinking you either start back from square one due to significant clock delay, or if you’re putting time on the clock, OT gets it baseline. PV should not have gotten it on sideline.
One thing to remember about this discussion and most games is the folks working the table are not experts or pros. All parents at ours. A lot of parents or students. It’s not rocket science but if you haven’t worked the game or shot clock or even home book in a big game you should give it a try. Mix in if it’s your kid’s team. Your daughter hits a step back 3…you drift ..wow that was sweet.wait what happened..? Time.. reset ? Who was that foul on ? There is a lot happening. Coaches questioning. Refs being refs. You can be watching ..concentrating and forget to start the clock. A couple times a game at our table you will hear..clock..clock..start it. That last play was tricky..pass..bounce…and catch..start the clock. There is a second of reaction time there and no way around it. You hope for perfection, but you get the best they can do. Folks aren’t always there because they want to, but because it’s better than the snack bar shift.
the only issue is.. you cannot ever take time away from what happened... so putting it on the endline with 1.7 is NOT an option.
you have to take something off the clock and put it in play wherever it was killed at.
if they killed it before the shot attempt PV keeps the ball. during the shot attempt PV is still in team control until it hits the rim so they keep it still. i believe that is the reason they kept it.
I think the officials try to stop play when they notice that the clock isn't running. So whenever the whistle blew is when the play is stopped. At that point, the team with possession gets the ball at the point on the court where they had it when the whistle blew.
So my effort to time to the shot attempt meant nothing. It's about when the whistle blew.
Two things:
1) A really bad mistake by the home clock operator (who might be an unpaid volunteer, as is the case at many schools); and
2) What a shot to win the game.
So my effort to time to the shot attempt meant nothing. It's about when the whistle blew.
Two things:
1) A really bad mistake by the home clock operator (who might be an unpaid volunteer, as is the case at many schools); and
2) What a shot to win the game.
you cannot start back from square one. in boys you have a count for the backcourt so that tells you the time. in girls no count, so you just have to know this. end of game situation the crew should have discussed this very thing if they had a chance with a dead ball. if they did, good job and they killed it as soon as they saw it. but you are not able to go back to the end line if live play started.
as for who has possesion, if it was killed before the shot it is PV, killed during the shot PV still in possession as far as team control it should still be theirs. it would go to the AP if it was off the rebound or a tipped pass/interrupted dribble.
NFHS Network clock inset is not synched with actual play. There's a four second delay for some reason.
This officiating crew, especially the midcourt official, must be recognized for nailing this unusual ending by rule. Not all officials would have noticed, let alone have the courage and knowledge to make this call. The crew also worked the last two minutes well as a team.
The player-control foul on OT #1 was 100% correct. The tough jump ball vs. time-out call was 100% correct (in OT's favor after OT#1 almost turned it over). The only call that might have been missed was another player-control foul on #1 (again) when she turned the ball over on the end line. Saved OT #1 from a foul.
Instead of bashing the timer or referees, fans must accept that the OT's MANY mistakes cost them the game. Referees did their job as a team. PV did their job. OT did not.
I commend OT coach for showing class in defeat in a heartbreaking loss. Sad to say, but it's rare to see such composure and restraint from a HS head coach. Respect.
The player-control foul on OT #1 was 100% correct. The tough jump ball vs. time-out call was 100% correct (in OT's favor after OT#1 almost turned it over). The only call that might have been missed was another player-control foul on #1 (again) when she turned the ball over on the end line. Saved OT #1 from a foul.
Instead of bashing the timer or referees, fans must accept that the OT's MANY mistakes cost them the game. Referees did their job as a team. PV did their job. OT did not.
I commend OT coach for showing class in defeat in a heartbreaking loss. Sad to say, but it's rare to see such composure and restraint from a HS head coach. Respect.
Hey Mom!
Any help on the part about who should inbound the ball after the play was stopped?
And Leroy Hurt is not there to berate, act a fool, or blame officials. He already knows walking into the gym most times what is expected of his team and him from opposing fans because they have Tech on their chest. He knows he has to pay those taxes, so he must act within character even at the lowest moments. Several coaches in the area should follow that, but they do not.
That is incorrect. There is no team control on a try in flight.
This, right here: “Instead of bashing the timer or referees, fans must accept that the OT's MANY mistakes cost them the game. Referees did their job as a team. PV did their job. OT did not.”
So if there is no team control at that point... the officials should have went to the AP arrow? did they? if the arrow was pointing to tech, there might be basis for an appeal.
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4jOEavuULP8
around the 10 minute mark... an interrupted game no team control, point of interruption with the arrow?
The ball was released from the PV player prior to the Ref blowing the whistle and PV still received possession of the game. Refs allowed PV to receive an advantage
who had the AP? if the ball was in flight, no team has control. might have a chance to appeal it
