Tech-PV

[WhistlersMother]

So if there is no team control at that point... the officials should have went to the AP arrow? did they? if the arrow was pointing to tech, there might be basis for an appeal.

Firstly, there are no appeals on judgment plays. I'm not saying a team couldn't try, but there's no basis by rule to support it.

If they blew the whistle while the try was in flight, the basket would have counted if successful. If not successful, they would have determined how much time elapsed between the inbound and the shot being unsuccessful, which, according to this crew's correct assessment of 0.5, would have resulted in time expiring. No time remaining for an alternate possession.

 

[ankleassassin]

Firstly, there are no appeals on judgment plays. I'm not saying a team couldn't try, but there's no basis by rule to support it.

If they blew the whistle while the try was in flight, the basket would have counted if successful. If not successful, they would have determined how much time elapsed between the inbound and the shot being unsuccessful, which, according to this crew's correct assessment of 0.5, would have resulted in time expiring. No time remaining for an alternate possession.

maybe i am confused. i thought the original inbound was at 1.7 seconds from the endline. the clock did not start and the shooter released the ball THEN they blow it dead. They decided it took 1.2 seconds and put .5 and resumed play on the sideline.

so that is the question. if the shot was in flight when the official blew the whistle, and therefore NO TEAM CONTROL. the point of interruption should be the AP and not awarded to the team who shot it? that is not a judgement call, that is the wrong way to adjudicate the rule.

 

[kbrizzzle]

if they killed it before the shot attempt PV keeps the ball. during the shot attempt PV is still in team control until it hits the rim so they keep it still. i believe that is the reason they kept it.

maybe i am confused. i thought the original inbound was at 1.7 seconds from the endline. the clock did not start and the shooter released the ball THEN they blow it dead. They decided it took 1.2 seconds and put .5 and resumed play on the sideline.

so that is the question. if the shot was in flight when the official blew the whistle, and therefore NO TEAM CONTROL. the point of interruption should be the AP and not awarded to the team who shot it? that is not a judgement call, that is the wrong way to adjudicate the rule.

I watched live on NFHS. The ref who blew play dead did so after the ball was in flight. He was focused on the play in backcourt and once he followed the ball, he seemed to notice something (I'll assume it was the clock not starting) he ran onto court whistling play dead. But this was well after the ball was in flight.

 

[Live4justice]

who had the AP? if the ball was in flight, no team has control. might have a chance to appeal it

View: https://youtu.be/NgHKZYA4owI?si=m3xCvnQBscu2MotR

Go to 5:38 you'll see her release and shortly after hear the whistle

 

[ankleassassin]

View: https://youtu.be/NgHKZYA4owI?si=m3xCvnQBscu2MotR

Go to 5:38 you'll see her release and shortly after hear the whistle

thats a tough one. i hear the whistle sound well after the shot was in flight and almost when it hit the ground. that surely was longer than 1.2.
then on the catch, turn and shoot with .5???? them refs said, aint no way yall bout to hang me out here in chico.. PV winnning!!!!!

 

[ankleassassin]

You keep saying she dribbled. Video says otherwise

she def caught it and squared up tho

 

[EHS HOOPS]

Wow... i'm with LadyJag on this one... PV should never have gotten the ball on the sideline with .5 seconds on the clock. If the clock never started... PV should have gotten the ball back on the baseline and had to go the full length of the court again with 1.7 on the clock. Giving them the ball on the sideline is like an NBA timeout which allowed them to advance the ball with a closer shot than a half court heave.

 

[ankleassassin]

Wow... i'm with LadyJag on this one... PV should never have gotten the ball on the sideline with .5 seconds on the clock. If the clock never started... PV should have gotten the ball back on the baseline and had to go the full length of the court again with 1.7 on the clock. Giving them the ball on the sideline is like an NBA timeout which allowed them to advance the ball with a closer shot than a half court heave.

If time elapsed, and you determine definite knowledge you have to put it in play where you stopped play it with the corrected time. you cannot erase what has happened. if that shot would have went in, you must count the shot. if a foul happened, you have to keep the foul.

 

[ClayK]

I'm not going to look again. Can you hear the whistle on the tape? And actually, I think the ref will go back to the time he or she noticed the clock not running.

An unfortunate situation, all in all, and every team and coach has had them, often at tough times. We lost a state title game by three back in the day and in the fourth quarter the opposing team took a three that bounced up, hit the shot clock, and went through. Ref didn't see it hit the shot clock, allowed the basket.

Tough way to go out ...

 

[WhistlersMother]

View: https://youtu.be/NgHKZYA4owI?si=m3xCvnQBscu2MotR

Go to 5:38 you'll see her release and shortly after hear the whistle

This video with more angles shows PV had the AP arrow. It also confirms the official blew the whistle after the try.
I shouldn't have said what the officials "would've done" if the ball went in. Only they know what they would've done, which would have been the worst situation to decide. But they would've handled it just like they did in this situation.

When a timing error is made, the officials can only correct it when they have "definite knowledge" of what the correct time "should" be. Where to restart is completely up to the crew. There are no rules or guidelines other than the error must be corrected. Ignoring the error is not an option. It's an impossible task and the crew has the latitude to decide when the rulebook does not cover a situation. It's known as the "elastic rule" or Rule 2-3 Referee's Authority.

People need to stop second-guessing referees. Yes, mistakes are made all the time. Officials do their best, but more often than not, common sense prevails. Fans and coaches will always be biased and try to gaslight refs into what happened. My coach used to say that if you lose by a referee's decision, you didn't do your job to leave it out of the referee's hands.

Kudos to this crew. I hope they get rewarded with NorCal and State Final assignments.

 

[ankleassassin]

This video with more angles shows PV had the AP arrow. It also confirms the official blew the whistle after the try.
I shouldn't have said what the officials "would've done" if the ball went in. Only they know what they would've done, which would have been the worst situation to decide. But they would've handled it just like they did in this situation.

When a timing error is made, the officials can only correct it when they have "definite knowledge" of what the correct time "should" be. Where to restart is completely up to the crew. There are no rules or guidelines other than the error must be corrected. Ignoring the error is not an option. It's an impossible task and the crew has the latitude to decide when the rulebook does not cover a situation. It's known as the "elastic rule" or Rule 2-3 Referee's Authority.

People need to stop second-guessing referees. Yes, mistakes are made all the time. Officials do their best, but more often than not, common sense prevails. Fans and coaches will always be biased and try to gaslight refs into what happened. My coach used to say that if you lose by a referee's decision, you didn't do your job to leave it out of the referee's hands.

Kudos to this crew. I hope they get rewarded with NorCal and State Final assignments.

ok, so PV had the arrow so that clears that up. did they then change the arrow? did they communicate it was the AP?
they did the best they could with the clock, although that was a long 1.2 seconds and longer .5 seconds.

 

[ankleassassin]

This video with more angles shows PV had the AP arrow. It also confirms the official blew the whistle after the try.
I shouldn't have said what the officials "would've done" if the ball went in. Only they know what they would've done, which would have been the worst situation to decide. But they would've handled it just like they did in this situation.

When a timing error is made, the officials can only correct it when they have "definite knowledge" of what the correct time "should" be. Where to restart is completely up to the crew. There are no rules or guidelines other than the error must be corrected. Ignoring the error is not an option. It's an impossible task and the crew has the latitude to decide when the rulebook does not cover a situation. It's known as the "elastic rule" or Rule 2-3 Referee's Authority.

People need to stop second-guessing referees. Yes, mistakes are made all the time. Officials do their best, but more often than not, common sense prevails. Fans and coaches will always be biased and try to gaslight refs into what happened. My coach used to say that if you lose by a referee's decision, you didn't do your job to leave it out of the referee's hands.

Kudos to this crew. I hope they get rewarded with NorCal and State Final assignments.

also, clarify that the crew once they decided there was an error there is no do overs.

 

[WhistlersMother]

ok, so PV had the arrow so that clears that up. did they then change the arrow? did they communicate it was the AP?
they did the best they could with the clock, although that was a long 1.2 seconds and longer .5 seconds.

AP was not involved at all. The inbounding sideline at 0.5 implies they are restarting when and where PV had team possession.

 

[ankleassassin]

AP was not involved at all. The inbounding sideline at 0.5 implies they are restarting when and where PV had team possession.

the ball was in flight for a bit before he blew it dead, nobody is in team control at that point. so it should have went to the AP?

 

[WhistlersMother]

the ball was in flight for a bit before he blew it dead, nobody is in team control at that point. so it should have went to the AP?

You keep saying 'should' as if the rules dictate this situation.

Imagine if OT stole the pass and took an immediate shot that went in. There's no one-size-fits-all solution for this situation. The crew used common sense for the specific play as it happened. When the whistle blew is irrelevant.

Here are the options:

1) Do nothing. Not allowable by rule.
2) Do over. Not allowable by rule.
3) Determine if the shot and subsequent action exceeded 1.7 seconds and declare the quarter over. I've already stated the complication if the shot is successful. Ref did the right thing blowing the whistle before the ball had a chance to go through the hoop. He was likely looking at the clock when he blew.
4) Determine when and where to continue play and how much time remains on the clock. No guidelines exist other than 'definite knowledge'.

Personally, I would've opted for #3. Their decision to go with #4 is correct, also.

 

[ankleassassin]

You keep saying 'should' as if the rules dictate this situation.

Imagine if OT stole the pass and took an immediate shot that went in. There's no one-size-fits-all solution for this situation. The crew used common sense for the specific play as it happened. When the whistle blew is irrelevant.

Here are the options:

1) Do nothing. Not allowable by rule.
2) Do over. Not allowable by rule.
3) Determine when and where to continue play and how much time remains on the clock. No guidelines exist other than 'definite knowledge'.

AP was not involved at all. The inbounding sideline at 0.5 implies they are restarting when and where PV had team possession.

Ok, so team control and team possession are not the same? The shot was in flight, someone above said team control is over when a shot is released.
That is why I mentioned the AP because neither team is in control. I assume possession is not control here.

 

[WhistlersMother]

Ok, so team control and team possession are not the same? The shot was in flight, someone above said team control is over when a shot is released.
That is why I mentioned the AP because neither team is in control. I assume possession is not control here.

Team control would've been the better term to use. Possession is primarily referred to in the rule book on AP plays.

 

[kiddman32]

"2) Do over. Not allowable by rule."

More proof the refs (or somebody) fixed the 1972 Olympic final...

Back to the discussion...

 

[ankleassassin]

They are the same. Team control would've been the better term to use.

Team control would've been the better term to use. Possession is primarily referred to in the rule book on AP plays.

that still leaves me at the original question.

 

[ankleassassin]

You keep saying 'should' as if the rules dictate this situation.

Imagine if OT stole the pass and took an immediate shot that went in. There's no one-size-fits-all solution for this situation. The crew used common sense for the specific play as it happened. When the whistle blew is irrelevant.

Here are the options:

1) Do nothing. Not allowable by rule.
2) Do over. Not allowable by rule.
3) Determine if the shot and subsequent action exceeded 1.7 seconds and declare the quarter over. I've already stated the complication if the shot is successful. Ref did the right thing blowing the whistle before the ball had a chance to go through the hoop. He was likely looking at the clock when he blew.
4) Determine when and where to continue play and how much time remains on the clock. No guidelines exist other than 'definite knowledge'.

Personally, I would've opted for #3. Their decision to go with #4 is correct, also.

i would have gone #3 as well. since its a guess anyways. i mean you guessed 1.2 how on earth can you guess .2????
i also would have put .3 or less on the clock to make the game go to overtime as well.

 

[observer22]

i would have gone #3 as well. since its a guess anyways. i mean you guessed 1.2 how on earth can you guess .2????
i also would have put .3 or less on the clock to make the game go to overtime as well.

They probably figured the game was going to overtime with just .5 on the clock.
It really was an amazing shot! Curry-esque.

 

[ankleassassin]

They probably figured the game was going to overtime with just .5 on the clock.
It really was an amazing shot! Curry-esque.

i agree they def felt that it would go to overtime with that amount of time.
and curry is 0-10 on game winners in the playoffs so not so fast

 

[kiddman32]

Whether or not the treatment of the endgame was proper, the bottom line is:

The team whose players stayed composed and executed well down the stretch won the game.

Further, my guess is that the team executing well at the end of regulation would have continued to do so in any OT.

 

[observer22]

i agree they def felt that it would go to overtime with that amount of time.
and curry is 0-10 on game winners in the playoffs so not so fast

I figured you’d appreciate the Curry reference. He’s actually done fairly well in the postseason without bouncing around from team to team.
That was the shot of a lifetime, I’m sure neither she nor her teammates will ever forget it.

 

[ankleassassin]

I figured you’d appreciate the Curry reference. He’s actually done fairly well in the postseason without bouncing around from team to team.
That was the shot of a lifetime, I’m sure neither she nor her teammates will ever forget it.

he has done well, but he is still 0-10 with the game on the line... all that schuking and jiving disappears when its time


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Dc7njqIacc