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Clip of Riordan-Inderkum Brawl...

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SHgradSIdad said:
No it was a sucker punch.......
Click to expand...

I’m not condoning violence but my saintly grandmother would say that #12 started it….

There may be a culture difference….I can admit that…

#12 stopped playing basketball. He incited the brawl. He was the aggressor.

He should have kept his hands to himself. He got slept. Not sucker punched.

He kicked it off… On the kickoff, everybody can get hit, even the kicker…
 
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SHgradSIdad said:
What I MEANT was by you encouraging this behavior may lead the young man to think it is ok and in a few years when he is an adult, this mentality will get him arrested....I am not saying he deserves any additional punishment for this, whatever the consequences are they are. But in "society" you can't go around cheap shotting people from behind and think it is ok because of some stupid code. But hey, I am done raising my kids...like I said I'm old school so my way of thinking may not apply today
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i agree. violence is never ok. HOWEVER...... he started it.
 
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NorCalRef said:
The whole thing is a mess and everyone involved has fault. The trash talking that occurred during the game - especially in the minutes leading up to the incident - should have been addressed and was not. The coaching staff and bench for Indy was out of control for a good chunk of the game & 4th quarter and it too was not properly addressed by the refs. #12 for Riordan was clearly unstable and trash talking a few plays prior to the point that his teammate had to pull him away and calm him down at which time the coach sat him down. If you are pursuing victory with honor, that player should NOT have been brought back into the game after a Riordan teammate fouled out. That's on the Riordan coach.

Then the chaos of the incident ensued. You've got the Indy bench almost entirely getting involved which is not ok. None of this is ok, but that is something that the coaches and administrators could have and should have controlled. You've got fans coming out onto the court by jumping down from above. There are small children running onto the court from the baseline needing to be whisked away so that they are not injured. There was not sufficient security and crowd control in place.

Everyone is to blame and no one looks good coming out of this. Simply a sad display of sportsmanship and authority for something that should be a positive experience for all. We all need to do better as humans. And as a ref myself, we need to do better in helping to ensure that we don't allow situations to escalate to this point through the way that we handle everything that led up to this.
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I was able to get some stats, and I'm here to state the facts.
There was 5 minutes left and the score was 46-36. The fouls were 7 Riordan - 4 Inderkum
Before the event happened with 1 minute left, the score was 61-52. The fouls were 10-10

To put things into perspective, Riordan shot 14 free throws and 2 more coming for number 4, Inderkum shot 9 free throws and 3 of them were "and 1s" 25 free throws in span of 4 mins!! Thats how the game went prior to the mess. There was also possible 6 other combined no calls that could've been called as fouls. 2 other Inderkum fouls are were excessive on 12 and 22. It was also stated 12 got hand checked out of bounds and started talking few plays after. 12 was called the foul prior to the incident as 3 made both free throws then the mess. As the @NorCalRef post above stated, the refs needed to control the game anything point before the incident.
 
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NorCalRef said:
The whole thing is a mess and everyone involved has fault. The trash talking that occurred during the game - especially in the minutes leading up to the incident - should have been addressed and was not. The coaching staff and bench for Indy was out of control for a good chunk of the game & 4th quarter and it too was not properly addressed by the refs. #12 for Riordan was clearly unstable and trash talking a few plays prior to the point that his teammate had to pull him away and calm him down at which time the coach sat him down. If you are pursuing victory with honor, that player should NOT have been brought back into the game after a Riordan teammate fouled out. That's on the Riordan coach.

Then the chaos of the incident ensued. You've got the Indy bench almost entirely getting involved which is not ok. None of this is ok, but that is something that the coaches and administrators could have and should have controlled. You've got fans coming out onto the court by jumping down from above. There are small children running onto the court from the baseline needing to be whisked away so that they are not injured. There was not sufficient security and crowd control in place.

Everyone is to blame and no one looks good coming out of this. Simply a sad display of sportsmanship and authority for something that should be a positive experience for all. We all need to do better as humans. And as a ref myself, we need to do better in helping to ensure that we don't allow situations to escalate to this point through the way that we handle everything that led up to this.
Click to expand...
this will happen again. there is no way to ever prevent it. a person can only do so much to control a whole gym. it is a win or go home situation and that brings out the best and worst.
maybe trophies for all and no title can solve this.
 
Maybe both the teams can be on the last season of Cobra Kai and settle their differences there.
 
I hate to say this but............. I'TS PART of THE GAME. It happens everyday. Its unfortunate, but part of being an athlete in a contact sport means that probably they'll be some scuffles here and there. The referees might need to look at what they could have done differently throughout the game as well.
 
Moses_Scurry said:
I hate to say this but............. I'TS PART of THE GAME. It happens everyday. Its unfortunate, but part of being an athlete in a contact sport means that probably they'll be some scuffles here and there. The referees might need to look at what they could have done differently throughout the game as well.
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the refs cant control unstable kids.
 
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SHgradSIdad said:
No it was a sucker punch.......
Click to expand...
BigMann08 said:
The young man that got fouled (#4) was on his way to the free throw line. He wasn’t hurt. That’s a regular basketball foul. He was on his way to the free throw line with the opportunity to extend the lead…

I’m not buying #12 going to the aid of his teammate. If he was, he would have approached #2 from Inderkum. He stayed clear of #2, probably because he’s about 6’4 220 pounds. He attacked the smaller guard…

That push from behind was an invitation to fight. #12 wanted to fight…

He put his teammates in a bad spot. The coach should have kept him out of the game. He wasn’t suckered punch. He was looking for a fight.
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Definitely was a sucker punch. After he hit the kid almost ran. Then decided to became a good samaritan and tried to separate people.

#12 is to blame for his actions, but I think he was trying to protect his teammate. He didn’t push #2 because #2 raised his arms seeming to keep it all basketball. The smaller guard had a different kind of energy.

The game should have been managed better.
 
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BigMann08 said:
I’m not condoning violence but my saintly grandmother would say that #12 started it….

There may be a culture difference….I can admit that…

#12 stopped playing basketball. He incited the brawl. He was the aggressor.

He should have kept his hands to himself. He got slept. Not sucker punched.

He kicked it off… On the kickoff, everybody can get hit, even the kicker…
Click to expand...
A little background on me...

I attended SHC in the early 80's when the Holy Trinity were all powerhouses in hoops. I played Frosh ball because that was the peak of my talents but have always loved the game. My son attended SI and he also peaked out at frosh ball but picked up my love for the game. He lives in NYC and was in town on a business trip so we decided to check out our first WCAL team game in 6 years.

I am former military and taught self defense and one on one combat in the military for 15 years. I am 57 and can count on 1 hand the fights I have been in my entire life. I have walked away from many more fights than I can recall. Not because I was afraid, but because I knew what may happen if I put my hands on someone. Was #12 wrong for pushing an opposing player? Absolutely! If he got dropped by the kid he pushed I would not have said a peep. I do have an issue with a player coming off the bench and sucker punching a kid, which is what that was no matter how you slice it. And adults on here justifying it because of this and that is wrong and sets a bad example for young men that are at an impressionable age.

I will leave it at that.
 
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SHgradSIdad said:
A little background on me...

I attended SHC in the early 80's when the Holy Trinity were all powerhouses in hoops. I played Frosh ball because that was the peak of my talents but have always loved the game. My son attended SI and he also peaked out at frosh ball but picked up my love for the game. He lives in NYC and was in town on a business trip so we decided to check out our first WCAL team game in 6 years.

I am former military and taught self defense and one on one combat in the military for 15 years. I am 57 and can count on 1 hand the fights I have been in my entire life. I have walked away from many more fights than I can recall. Not because I was afraid, but because I knew what may happen if I put my hands on someone. Was #12 wrong for pushing an opposing player? Absolutely! If he got dropped by the kid he pushed I would not have said a peep. I do have an issue with a player coming off the bench and sucker punching a kid, which is what that was no matter how you slice it. And adults on here justifying it because of this and that is wrong and sets a bad example for young men that are at an impressionable age.

I will leave it at that.
Click to expand...
these fellas competing in D1 basketball are past being impressed by us losers on the internet. they dont look to us for anyway to live life and actually look at us of a way to not end up.
glad you have hands of steel and thanks for your service. but this aint that.
 
B_Smooth_7 said:
Definitely was a sucker punch. After he hit the kid almost ran. Then decided to became a good samaritan and tried to separate people.

#12 is to blame for his actions, but I think he was trying to protect his teammate. He didn’t push #2 because #2 raised his arms seeming to keep it all basketball. The smaller guard had a different kind of energy.

The game should have been managed better.
Click to expand...

#12’s teammate didn’t need protection. He wasn’t harmed. He was on his way to the free throw line to shoot free throws. He saved a turnover from his hustle and was going to the free throw line.

From my pov: if #12 keeps his hands to himself, then there wouldn’t have been a brawl.

#0 from Inderkum was not being a Good Samaritan. There was no one else on the court to go after. The bully got bullied….
 
Ironic that Riordan plays Granada, the same schools played football last season and the refs stopped the game after a Granada player body slammed a Riordan player 30 yards away from the play after the whistle was blown in garbage time with Riordan subs as they had a big lead. The player suffered a severe concussion and never returned last season. Riordan HC Adhir was incensed - no apology from the coach or player. They went directly to board their bus
 
SHgradSIdad said:
A little background on me...

I attended SHC in the early 80's when the Holy Trinity were all powerhouses in hoops. I played Frosh ball because that was the peak of my talents but have always loved the game. My son attended SI and he also peaked out at frosh ball but picked up my love for the game. He lives in NYC and was in town on a business trip so we decided to check out our first WCAL team game in 6 years.

I am former military and taught self defense and one on one combat in the military for 15 years. I am 57 and can count on 1 hand the fights I have been in my entire life. I have walked away from many more fights than I can recall. Not because I was afraid, but because I knew what may happen if I put my hands on someone. Was #12 wrong for pushing an opposing player? Absolutely! If he got dropped by the kid he pushed I would not have said a peep. I do have an issue with a player coming off the bench and sucker punching a kid, which is what that was no matter how you slice it. And adults on here justifying it because of this and that is wrong and sets a bad example for young men that are at an impressionable age.

I will leave it at that.
Click to expand...
Again that’s your point of view…

And I respect it. I won’t run my resume because we ain’t got all day. But I’ve played and coached in thousands of games. I don’t know the military. I know basketball! The threat of violence is real on a basketball court. Especially when physical play and trash talking persists. Things can get out of hand quickly. I’ve seen guns drawn, people stomped out, kids sent to the hospital, buses shot up, etc. All on a basketball court…

******Newsflash******
On the basketball court, pushing someone is the equivalent to starting a fight or at least wanting to fight.
**********************************************
You are Catholic school educated, so you should know that trash-talking, taunting, cussing, and poor sportsmanship is unbecoming of a Catholic school student. It does not represent what the Catholic Church is all about. That young man was out of control and should have been reprimanded before the mayhem started. He was unstable and all of the signs were there. The lack of leadership/discernment/judgment from the coach was on full display. The coaches knew that he was out of control but kept him in the game.

Parochial schools teach the golden rule! When they go low, we go high! Turn the other cheek, peacemakers, brotherhood, love your neighbor, love your enemies etc.

You don’t fight fire with fire. Archbishop Riordan didn’t have to trash talk, push and shove, fight to beat Inderkum High School. They play a physical brand of basketball that was giving Inderkum fits.

#12 brought that street mentality to the basketball court and he got that same energy back. Had he took the high road like his teammates, this incident would not have occurred. He started a fight and his teammates didn’t have his back.
He placed his teammates in a compromising position. Watch the film again: #4 and #21 got drawn into a scuffle that they wanted no part of.

#22 for AR stayed far away from the mayhem. He didn’t even check on or come to the aide of #12. He tried to calm him down moments before. #22 sensed that things were getting out of hand…
 
Inderkum should be banned from postseason play for a minimum of one year. Riordan's injured player would be out anyway due to his concussion, but he would be banned due to the push. One or two others that came off the bench from Riordan will also likely be banned.
 
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BigMann08 said:
The refs didn’t set a great tone for this game. The over aggressive defense and taunting should have not been allowed from the beginning. In games like this, where the kids are not highly skilled, you can’t just let them play…

I also fault Riordan for not taking better control of their basketball team and gymnasium. Their kids were doing a whole lot of trash talking and woofing, which doesn’t quite meet the standards of a parochial institution. That push was a clear sign of bullying and taunting.
Click to expand...
You weren't at the game, but you knew who was trash talking. Riiiiight.
 
BigMann08 said:
Riordan is not above reproach…

From what I saw, the Riordan player #12 instigated this dust up. Let your game do the talking not your hands. That aggressive push set things off.

We could also say that the Riordan coach had no control over his players. Up by 9 and your player renders a hard and unnecessary shove to a kid who was just playing hard d. That shove wasn’t a basketball play…
Click to expand...
Again, you make absolutely false statements. YOU should be banned from this site.
 
BigMann08 said:
Again that’s your point of view…

And I respect it. I won’t run my resume because we ain’t got all day. But I’ve played and coached in thousands of games. I don’t know the military. I know basketball! The threat of violence is real on a basketball court. Especially when physical play and trash talking persists. Things can get out of hand quickly. I’ve seen guns drawn, people stomped out, kids sent to the hospital, buses shot up, etc. All on a basketball court…

******Newsflash******
On the basketball court, pushing someone is the equivalent to starting a fight or at least wanting to fight.
**********************************************
You are Catholic school educated, so you should know that trash-talking, taunting, cussing, and poor sportsmanship is unbecoming of a Catholic school student. It does not represent what the Catholic Church is all about. That young man was out of control and should have been reprimanded before the mayhem started. He was unstable and all of the signs were there. The lack of leadership/discernment/judgment from the coach was on full display. The coaches knew that he was out of control but kept him in the game.

Parochial schools teach the golden rule! When they go low, we go high! Turn the other cheek, peacemakers, brotherhood, love your neighbor, love your enemies etc.

You don’t fight fire with fire. Archbishop Riordan didn’t have to trash talk, push and shove, fight to beat Inderkum High School. They play a physical brand of basketball that was giving Inderkum fits.

#12 brought that street mentality to the basketball court and he got that same energy back. Had he took the high road like his teammates, this incident would not have occurred. He started a fight and his teammates didn’t have his back.
He placed his teammates in a compromising position. Watch the film again: #4 and #21 got drawn into a scuffle that they wanted no part of.

#22 for AR stayed far away from the mayhem. He didn’t even check on or come to the aide of #12. He tried to calm him down moments before. #22 sensed that things were getting out of hand…
Click to expand...
Yes. As the entire Inderkum bench and fans stormed the court against the Riordan 5. #12 deserves to be suspended. But you had the entire bench come at the Riordan players with 2 of them getting cold cocked.
 
ArmchairGOAT said:
Yes. As the entire Inderkum bench and fans stormed the court against the Riordan 5. #12 deserves to be suspended. But you had the entire bench come at the Riordan players with 2 of them getting cold cocked.
Click to expand...
some people are bout it, some just talk about it.

2 riordan players walked to halfcourt but they looked like they were looking for butterflies
 
ankleassassin said:
some people are bout it, some just talk about it.

2 riordan players walked to halfcourt but they looked like they were looking for butterflies
Click to expand...
According to the article, 2 players from Inderkum punched kids from behind.....Del Paso Heights representin' I guess..... is this what you mean by bout it? Hitting people from behind...if you're going to promote fighting at least do it the right way.... not this way
 
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BigMann08 said:
Again that’s your point of view…

And I respect it. I won’t run my resume because we ain’t got all day. But I’ve played and coached in thousands of games. I don’t know the military. I know basketball! The threat of violence is real on a basketball court. Especially when physical play and trash talking persists. Things can get out of hand quickly. I’ve seen guns drawn, people stomped out, kids sent to the hospital, buses shot up, etc. All on a basketball court…

******Newsflash******
On the basketball court, pushing someone is the equivalent to starting a fight or at least wanting to fight.
**********************************************
You are Catholic school educated, so you should know that trash-talking, taunting, cussing, and poor sportsmanship is unbecoming of a Catholic school student. It does not represent what the Catholic Church is all about. That young man was out of control and should have been reprimanded before the mayhem started. He was unstable and all of the signs were there. The lack of leadership/discernment/judgment from the coach was on full display. The coaches knew that he was out of control but kept him in the game.

Parochial schools teach the golden rule! When they go low, we go high! Turn the other cheek, peacemakers, brotherhood, love your neighbor, love your enemies etc.

You don’t fight fire with fire. Archbishop Riordan didn’t have to trash talk, push and shove, fight to beat Inderkum High School. They play a physical brand of basketball that was giving Inderkum fits.

#12 brought that street mentality to the basketball court and he got that same energy back. Had he took the high road like his teammates, this incident would not have occurred. He started a fight and his teammates didn’t have his back.
He placed his teammates in a compromising position. Watch the film again: #4 and #21 got drawn into a scuffle that they wanted no part of.

#22 for AR stayed far away from the mayhem. He didn’t even check on or come to the aide of #12. He tried to calm him down moments before. #22 sensed that things were getting out of hand…
Click to expand...
#22 Christian Wise is a BIG kid. Not many would want a piece of him.
 
BigMann08 said:
Again that’s your point of view…

And I respect it. I won’t run my resume because we ain’t got all day. But I’ve played and coached in thousands of games. I don’t know the military. I know basketball! The threat of violence is real on a basketball court. Especially when physical play and trash talking persists. Things can get out of hand quickly. I’ve seen guns drawn, people stomped out, kids sent to the hospital, buses shot up, etc. All on a basketball court…

******Newsflash******
On the basketball court, pushing someone is the equivalent to starting a fight or at least wanting to fight.
**********************************************
You are Catholic school educated, so you should know that trash-talking, taunting, cussing, and poor sportsmanship is unbecoming of a Catholic school student. It does not represent what the Catholic Church is all about. That young man was out of control and should have been reprimanded before the mayhem started. He was unstable and all of the signs were there. The lack of leadership/discernment/judgment from the coach was on full display. The coaches knew that he was out of control but kept him in the game.

Parochial schools teach the golden rule! When they go low, we go high! Turn the other cheek, peacemakers, brotherhood, love your neighbor, love your enemies etc.

You don’t fight fire with fire. Archbishop Riordan didn’t have to trash talk, push and shove, fight to beat Inderkum High School. They play a physical brand of basketball that was giving Inderkum fits.

#12 brought that street mentality to the basketball court and he got that same energy back. Had he took the high road like his teammates, this incident would not have occurred. He started a fight and his teammates didn’t have his back.
Click to expand...
So because Riordan is a catholic school they were wrong because they are taught not to act a certain way? But because Inderkum is a public school their reaction was justified? So this is what is taught in public schools? Am I understanding you correctly? React to every incident with violence?

I agree with you the push was uncalled for, he was wrong 100%. But using your logic, it is OK to react how the entire Inderkum team reacted and even some spectators because they didn't start it.
 
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Inderkum's rough play came out of frustration and desperation. They had no answer to Riordan's swarming defense, getting out rebounded and Riordan scoring from everywhere on the floor. This unfortunate incident is a first for Riordan, not so for Inderkum as I understand.
 
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CIF has announced some of the penalties. Riordan will have to play all remaining NorCal games on road. As a result, Saturday’s game is at Granada.
 
SHgradSIdad said:
So because Riordan is a catholic school they were wrong because they are taught not to act a certain way? But because Inderkum is a public school their reaction was justified? So this is what is taught in public schools? Am I understanding you correctly? React to every incident with violence?

I agree with you the push was uncalled for, he was wrong 100%. But using your logic, it is OK to react how the entire Inderkum team reacted and even some spectators because they didn't start it.
Click to expand...
There are bad kids at both Catholic and public. As an SH alum, all those really bad kids usually got expelled or left the school by end of sophomore year. Junior and senior years we just have the funny knuckleheads that were not trouble at all. At publics youre pretty much stuck with them or maybe they dont even go to the school and are out on the streets up to no good. We're just talking about student body though. If youre good enough to be on a sports team, you do have some semblance of wanting to be taught, told what to do, stay out of trouble.

This was kids just letting their uncontrollable emotions get the best of them. 16, 17 year olds are still immature and are just raging hormones that mostly act before taking a step back and assessing the situation.
 
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SHgradSIdad said:
So because Riordan is a catholic school they were wrong because they are taught not to act a certain way? But because Inderkum is a public school their reaction was justified? So this is what is taught in public schools? Am I understanding you correctly? React to every incident with violence?

I agree with you the push was uncalled for, he was wrong 100%. But using your logic, it is OK to react how the entire Inderkum team reacted and even some spectators because they didn't start it.
Click to expand...
No, Inderkum is not exempt. Their behavior was unacceptable and embarrassing. Several people were blaming the brawl on Inderkum (excusing the behavior of #12) and praising Riordan’s staff for how they handle the situation. I saw this differently. So I offered a different perspective.

I hate to see young Brothers fighting one another…. Riordan is supposed to lead by example. Are they not supposed to represent Christ?
 
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