Del Oro vs Central Catholic - SJS DII Semifinal 23-12 DO Final

[FootballJunkie101]

CC has used three different QB's this year. Azevado, Jackson, & Barton. Azevedo has played the most. He beat St. Mary's and Rocklin and had the most playing time during the year. That is the guy DO played against.

The sophomore Barton wasn't going to make any difference...he doesn't run and is only an average passer. The other sophomore Jackson hasn't played since the 4th game of the season.

How about just acknowledging DO outplayed CC because they played physical swarming defense. CC probably hadn't seen a tough D like that except against St. Mary's and Oakdale. Football is a tough game when the other team scouts you well and an easy game when you know what the other team is going to do.

Saying the starter didn't play and was the reason CC lost, is lame and not really true.

"If" my Aunt had a pair of you know what? She'd be my Uncle. But for now she's my Aunt. I will say this, had C.C. QB been knocked out at the start of the D.O. game I would agree that it gave the Golden Eagles an advantage. However, we all know the CC quarterback that started against D.O. had at least 4 quality games under his belt in which he won three of them before entertaining D.O.. He beat a good Rocklin team, a solid Manteca team and a very good St. Mary's team under the helm. Both teams are section Powers and highly respected NorCal teams and I'm sure they could beat each other on any given Friday. That said, I just don't agree with the back and forth bickering about QB play. I would love to see these two programs matchup in the pre-season next year and the year after. Especially if one of the programs move to a different division in the post season.

 

[playsomeball]

"If" my Aunt had a pair of you know what? She'd be my Uncle. But for now she's my Aunt. I will say this, had C.C. QB been knocked out at the start of the D.O. game I would agree that it gave the Golden Eagles an advantage. However, we all know the CC quarterback that started against D.O. had at least 4 quality games under his belt in which he won three of them before entertaining D.O.. He beat a good Rocklin team, a solid Manteca team and a very good St. Mary's team under the helm. Both teams are section Powers and highly respected NorCal teams and I'm sure they could beat each other on any given Friday. That said, I just don't agree with the back and forth bickering about QB play. I would love to see these two programs matchup in the pre-season next year and the year after. Especially if one of the programs move to a different division in the post season.

This isn't one of CC's best teams they have had. Word is from Alumni is CC is going to be stacked next year. So look out. They will compete again next season.

 

[FootballJunkie101]

CC is going to be stacked next year. So look out. They will compete again next season.

I'd be the last person on here to doubt that.

 

[playsomeball]

CC has used three different QB's this year. Azevado, Jackson, & Barton. Azevedo has played the most. He beat St. Mary's and Rocklin and had the most playing time during the year. That is the guy DO played against.

The sophomore Barton wasn't going to make any difference...he doesn't run and is only an average passer. The other sophomore Jackson hasn't played since the 4th game of the season.

How about just acknowledging DO outplayed CC because they played physical swarming defense. CC probably hadn't seen a tough D like that except against St. Mary's and Oakdale. Football is a tough game when the other team scouts you well and an easy game when you know what the other team is going to do.

Saying the starter didn't play and was the reason CC lost, is lame and not really true.

Wrong about Jackson when you said he hasn't played since the 4th game of the season. He played the 10th game of the season -Oakdale vs CC game. He got hurt in the first half of the game pretty badly.
Azevedo came in to finish out that game.

Azevedo is their 2nd string QB...CC played a bad game and DO stepped up and played well enough to beat CC. Something they have not been able to do against the top SFL teams. Good for them. I just don't think they are good enough to beat GB.... BTW I'm not a CC fan. But I have to defend them when I read how CC can't compete in D2. I think they proved they can. They reached the semi final. And if Posters feel this, then they should feel the same about DO. To me, DO couldn't compete in the SFL. Lost every game to the top teams in league.

 

[smashmouthrick]

I believe CC is a better team. CC has proven themselves. They beat a very good St Mary's team who is now going to play in a section chsmpionship against Folsom. DO couldn't win a game against any of the top SFL teams. It's high school football and sometimes you have good games and bad games...

If you look at the complete body of work over the season between CC & DO CC was the better team for the season. As I've stated all year DO is down from last year and it showed during the regular season, yes, they did not beat Rocklin & Oak Ridge and while the score does not reflect DO struggled for at least half the game vs a weak(by SFL standards) Nevada Union team. DO also struggled against a Lincoln team that they should have beaten handily. The Lincoln game was the catalyst for DO's turn around and it showed clearly in the game vs Indy. I don't know CC well but I would argue that DO is peaking more than CC in the playoffs.

...CC made lots of mistakes and their QB held on to the ball way to long. Give credit to DO, they put the pressure on and played well and did what they needed to beat a very good, physical, athletic CC team...

As RR stated your point about the CC QB is weak. In the other game CC lost to your Mustangs Azevedo(2nd string QB) had more passes vs the starting QB. If CC backup QB was a contributing reason that DO won then this logic should also apply to the Oakdale/CC game.

CC won the first half and Booker for the most part dictated. DO made some defensive adjustments in the 2nd half and took Booker out of the game in the 3rd quarter. CC started passing while DO continued with their run stop scheme(LB's & safety in the box) and zone pass coverage and instead of stopping runs the LB's were blowing by CC line and hammering the QB. I don't think CC was used to getting smacked like this and DO just took the wind out of their sails. CC played great ball up till ~mid 3rd quarter. I don't think they had bad game, maybe not their best game but not a bad game.

However you want to rationalize it DO was the better team Friday night.

After seeing CC live I have a lot of respect for how they roll.

 

[FelineBad]

T

Wrong about Jackson when you said he hasn't played since the 4th game of the season. He played the 10th game of the season -Oakdale vs CC game. He got hurt in the first half of the game pretty badly.
Azevedo came in to finish out that game.

Azevedo is their 2nd string QB...CC played a bad game and DO stepped up and played well enough to beat CC. Something they have not been able to do against the top SFL teams. Good for them. I just don't think they are good enough to beat GB.... BTW I'm not a CC fan. But I have to defend them when I read how CC can't compete in D2. I think they proved they can. They reached the semi final. And if Posters feel this, then they should feel the same about DO. To me, DO couldn't compete in the SFL. Lost every game to the top teams in league.

Agree, both are D3.

 

[playsomeball]

Not to worry CC will return to D3 next year, where they belong.

They belong in D2. They competed and won games to make it to the semi finals. I believe they stay in D2 since they made it to semi's.... somebody had to lose. CC had a bad game that all. They beat Rocklin whom beat DO. So to say they belong in D3 is wrong.

 

[smashmouthrick]

CC will learn from the DO game and like the top tier team they are will compete well in D2.

 

[playsomeball]

If you look at the complete body of work over the season between CC & DO CC was the better team for the season. As I've stated all year DO is down from last year and it showed during the regular season, yes, they did not beat Rocklin & Oak Ridge and while the score does not reflect DO struggled for at least half the game vs a weak(by SFL standards) Nevada Union team. DO also struggled against a Lincoln team that they should have beaten handily. The Lincoln game was the catalyst for DO's turn around and it showed clearly in the game vs Indy. I don't know CC well but I would argue that DO is peaking more than CC in the playoffs.


As RR stated your point about the CC QB is weak. In the other game CC lost to your Mustangs Azevedo(2nd string QB) had more passes vs the starting QB. If CC backup QB was a contributing reason that DO won then this logic should also apply to the Oakdale/CC game.

CC won the first half and Booker for the most part dictated. DO made some defensive adjustments in the 2nd half and took Booker out of the game in the 3rd quarter. CC started passing while DO continued with their run stop scheme(LB's & safety in the box) and zone pass coverage and instead of stopping runs the LB's were blowing by CC line and hammering the QB. I don't think CC was used to getting smacked like this and DO just took the wind out of their sails. CC played great ball up till ~mid 3rd quarter. I don't think they had bad game, maybe not their best game but not a bad game.

However you want to rationalize it DO was the better team Friday night.

After seeing CC live I have a lot of respect for how they roll.

Very true, and I do apply it to the Oakdale/CC game. CC was winning and the First string QB went out. Azevedo came in and threw 3 interceptions. Who knows what would have happened if Jackson stayed in, but I do know that Azevedo makes some bad decisions under pressure.

 

[FelineBad]

Too easy to defend. FB and TB keys. DO had 3-6 guys flying to the ball all night. Pretty much shut down a great running back. Agree that CC play action passes completed would have won the game.

 

[RidgeRider]

Central Catholic has a great program. Classy kids, coaches and fans.

Hope to see them again next year. Would be a good pre-season team to play. DO’s juniors have taken over most of the key starting positions so it would be another good close game.

 

[FootballJunkie101]

Central Catholic has a great program. Classy kids, coaches and fans.

Hope to see them again next year. Would be a good pre-season team to play. DO’s juniors have taken over most of the key starting positions so it would be another good close game.

View embedded media

From that little highlight footage it looked like DO came to handle their bidness. They were just the better team that night. DO's #6 is the truth.

 

[DelOroFB_Dad]

Central Catholic has a great program. Classy kids, coaches and fans.

Hope to see them again next year. Would be a good pre-season team to play. DO’s juniors have taken over most of the key starting positions so it would be another good close game.

View embedded media

Would be a great Norcal Honor Bowl 2018. Seed planted.

 

[FootballJunkie101]

"If" my Aunt had a pair of you know what? She'd be my Uncle. But for now she's my Aunt. I will say this, had C.C. QB been knocked out at the start of the D.O. game I would agree that it gave the Golden Eagles an advantage. However, we all know the CC quarterback that started against D.O. had at least 4 quality games under his belt in which he won three of them before entertaining D.O.. He beat a good Rocklin team, a solid Manteca team and a very good St. Mary's team under the helm. Both teams are section Powers and highly respected NorCal teams and I'm sure they could beat each other on any given Friday. That said, I just don't agree with the back and forth bickering about QB play. I would love to see these two programs matchup in the pre-season next year and the year after. Especially if one of the programs move to a different division in the post season.

Would be a great Norcal Honor Bowl 2018. Seed planted.

Great minds think alike.

 

[smashmouthrick]

...DO’s juniors have taken over most of the key starting positions so it would be another good close game.

View embedded media

This years DO team has an interesting parallel to the 2008 DO team where the Junior class were the better players(not all but most). The 2008 Juniors produced one of the best DO teams I’ve seen, the 2009 team. The difference is that this year the coaches made some tough decisions to play the Juniors at the key starting positions and it is producing results.

Agree RR it would be great to see a preseason CC/DO game. Honor Bowl as DOFBDAD suggests would be awesome.

 

[mustang1970]

Very true, and I do apply it to the Oakdale/CC game. CC was winning and the First string QB went out. Azevedo came in and threw 3 interceptions. Who knows what would have happened if Jackson stayed in, but I do know that Azevedo makes some bad decisions under pressure.

Try not to beat up on Azevedo too much. The interception before half was a key moment. In 2nd half he came out with nice TD pass.
At this time Oakdale finally started getting quicker penetration on the pass and clamping down on Booker. Azevedo’s 2nd interception was on 4th and forever and thrown into a sea of red. It actually netted CC ABOUT 15 extra yards. Would have been more if defender hadn’t had a good return. The last interception was at end of game in desperation mode into heavy coverage on 3rd and long. Would having had the other QB in made a difference? Very possibly.

 

[RidgeRider]

This years DO team has an interesting parallel to the 2008 DO team where the Junior class were the better players(not all but most). The 2008 Juniors produced one of the best DO teams I’ve seen, the 2009 team. The difference is that this year the coaches made some tough decisions to play the Juniors at the key starting positions and it is producing results.

Agree RR it would be great to see a preseason CC/DO game. Honor Bowl as DOFBDAD suggests would be awesome.

Agreed. The JV team has some nice talent as well and will fill in the spots opened up by the departing seniors. Treadwell will give them a nice option at running back and Cal Lunders is an excellent safety and a good QB as well. Lots of depth. Should be a fun season next year.

 

[feedback1]

I don't understand why DO was not moved up to D1 for the 2017 playoffs. There is a criteria that winning four section titles in 6 years that causes a one division move. DO won section titles in 2011 (D3), 2013 (D2), 2015 (D2), and 2016 (D2).

The same criteria caused CC to be moved to the D2 playoffs the last 2 years after they won section titles in 2012 thru 2014 (D4) and again in 2015 (D3). The good news for them is that they will be back down in 2018 as they did not make the section finals in either of the 2 years they were in D2. CC also met the criteria for being in the section final four years in a row with at least one title.

IMO, DO was more deserving of the move than CC. CC won only 1 title in D3 and was moved up. DO won 3 titles in D2. The section should answer the question as to why DO was allowed to compete in D2 after meeting the criteria and winning the last two D2 titles.

" Continued Success. If a school has maintained continued success over several years but has not won three straight Section titles, the Section Commissioner (in consultation with the Executive Committee) may recommend to the board that a school be moved to a higher division. Continued success may include, but not be limited to, the following: * Section semifinalist or finalist for four or more years in a row with at least one Section title; or * Four Section titles in a span of six years. i. After a school has been moved to a level above its enrollment because of the three in a row rule or the continued success rule, that school may be moved down one level if the following occurs: (a) The school misses the playoffs in any year; or (b) The school fails to reach the semifinals in two consecutive years."

 

[FootballJunkie101]

I don't understand why DO was not moved up to D1 for the 2017 playoffs. There is a criteria that winning four section titles in 6 years that causes a one division move. DO won section titles in 2011 (D3), 2013 (D2), 2015 (D2), and 2016 (D2).

The same criteria caused CC to be moved to the D2 playoffs the last 2 years after they won section titles in 2012 thru 2014 (D4) and again in 2015 (D3). The good news for them is that they will be back down in 2018 as they did not make the section finals in either of the 2 years they were in D2. CC also met the criteria for being in the section final four years in a row with at least one title.

IMO, DO was more deserving of the move than CC. CC won only 1 title in D3 and was moved up. DO won 3 titles in D2. The section should answer the question as to why DO was allowed to compete in D2 after meeting the criteria and winning the last two D2 titles.

" Continued Success. If a school has maintained continued success over several years but has not won three straight Section titles, the Section Commissioner (in consultation with the Executive Committee) may recommend to the board that a school be moved to a higher division. Continued success may include, but not be limited to, the following: * Section semifinalist or finalist for four or more years in a row with at least one Section title; or * Four Section titles in a span of six years. i. After a school has been moved to a level above its enrollment because of the three in a row rule or the continued success rule, that school may be moved down one level if the following occurs: (a) The school misses the playoffs in any year; or (b) The school fails to reach the semifinals in two consecutive years."

Seems like a fair question to asked the Section Commish. That said, I don't have a problem with DO being in D-2. I like the competitiveness they bring to that division. I believe Del Oro and Central Catholic both should remain in the SJS D-2 bracket. I also believe Oakdale should be moved to D-2.

 

[smashmouthrick]

I don't understand why DO was not moved up to D1 for the 2017 playoffs. There is a criteria that winning four section titles in 6 years that causes a one division move. DO won section titles in 2011 (D3), 2013 (D2), 2015 (D2), and 2016 (D2).

The same criteria caused CC to be moved to the D2 playoffs the last 2 years after they won section titles in 2012 thru 2014 (D4) and again in 2015 (D3). The good news for them is that they will be back down in 2018 as they did not make the section finals in either of the 2 years they were in D2. CC also met the criteria for being in the section final four years in a row with at least one title.

IMO, DO was more deserving of the move than CC. CC won only 1 title in D3 and was moved up. DO won 3 titles in D2. The section should answer the question as to why DO was allowed to compete in D2 after meeting the criteria and winning the last two D2 titles.

" Continued Success. If a school has maintained continued success over several years but has not won three straight Section titles, the Section Commissioner (in consultation with the Executive Committee) may recommend to the board that a school be moved to a higher division. Continued success may include, but not be limited to, the following: * Section semifinalist or finalist for four or more years in a row with at least one Section title; or * Four Section titles in a span of six years. i. After a school has been moved to a level above its enrollment because of the three in a row rule or the continued success rule, that school may be moved down one level if the following occurs: (a) The school misses the playoffs in any year; or (b) The school fails to reach the semifinals in two consecutive years."

Below are the full playoff bylaws. The ones that would apply to Del Oro in this case would be #4 & #5. DO has not won 3 D2 titles in a row so #4 does not apply and I know you are not questioning this. #5 does apply as you call out BUT it is a judgement call by the committee in this case and not an automatic promotion as in the case of #4. I don't know the exact reasoning why DO was not recommended/approved for D1 but @playsomeball mentioned in a thread in October something about coaching change which seems kind of lame to me on CIF's part is that is true. Obviously DO would meet #4 criteria if they beat Granite Bay Saturday.


Playoff Bylaws
Divisional Placement
1. Divisions. The qualifying teams will be placed in divisions in order of enrollment size. However, schools may not play more than one division below their league placement in realignment. If a school’s enrollment places them in a division that is two or more divisions below its league placement in realignment, that school will be moved up at least one division for playoffs.

2. Section Champion From Previous Year. If a school wins a Section championship at a particular level, that school must play at or above that level the following year.

3. League Champions. If a team wins a league championship (outright, or is the No. 1 seed by criteria), that team must play at or above the level of its league competition. For instance, if a school wins a championship in a D3 league but is D4 by enrollment, they would be forced to play D3 in that year’s playoffs.

4. Three in a Row. Schools that win three championships in a row will be moved up one division. If that school wins again the following year at its new level, it will be moved again to the next higher level. Otherwise, the school will remain in that division until it wins three more in a row (moved up one more division).

5. Continued Success. If a school has maintained continued success over several years but has not won three straight Section titles, the Section Commissioner (in consultation with the Executive Committee) may recommend to the board that a school be moved to a higher division. Continued success may include, but not be limited to, the following: * Section semifinalist or finalist for four or more years in a row with at least one Section title; or * Four Section titles in a span of six years. i. After a school has been moved to a level above its enrollment because of the three in a row rule or the continued success rule, that school may be moved down one level if the following occurs: (a) The school misses the playoffs in any year; or (b) The school fails to reach the semifinals in two consecutive years.

6. A school is not allowed to play in a division lower than its enrollment.

7. Bracket Size. Divisions I-III will be 16 teams. Divisions IV-VI will be 8 teams. Division VII will be six teams.

 

[joebl]

But according to CCS Playoff Point system, Del Oro is only a "B league opponent".

 

[playsomeball]

Seems like a fair question to asked the Section Commish. That said, I don't have a problem with DO being in D-2. I like the competitiveness they bring to that division. I believe Del Oro and Central Catholic both should remain in the SJS D-2 bracket. I also believe Oakdale should be moved to D-2.

If Oakdale wins this years section title they will be moved to D2 next season for playoffs.

Not sure what Oakdale will bring next season, but I say that every year, and every year they seem to come through.

I do know that Oakdale's Freshman team this season were undefeated and had blow out games, winning by over 25 pts points and then some... well, excepts for Folsom.
Oakdale's Frosh team beat Folsom, 19-14 I believe, but still a win.

I would like to see Oakdale and CC in D2 playoffs. Would be a very competitive playoff bracket with DO, Rocklin, CC, Oakdale, Granit Bay... etc....

 

[FootballJunkie101]

If Oakdale wins this years section title they will be moved to D2 next season for playoffs.

Not sure what Oakdale will bring next season, but I say that every year, and every year they seem to come through.

I do know that Oakdale's Freshman team this season were undefeated and had blow out games, winning by over 25 pts points and then some... well, excepts for Folsom.
Oakdale's Frosh team beat Folsom, 19-14 I believe, but still a win.

I would like to see Oakdale and CC in D2 playoffs. Would be a very competitive playoff bracket with DO, Rocklin, CC, Oakdale, Granit Bay... etc....

Cool, I agree with the D2 playoff addition of Oakdale next year after they win another D3 section this year. Side question, how do you think Sutter would fare against Oakdale? Sutter looks really dangerous this year and we all know Oakdale ain't no joke.

 

[playsomeball]

Cool, I agree with the D2 playoff addition of Oakdale next year after they win another D3 section this year. Side question, how do you think Sutter would fare against Oakdale? Sutter looks really dangerous this year and we all know Oakdale ain't no joke.

Sutter gave Oakdale a good scare last season in the NorCal bowl game. I suspect it would have been the same this season. They are a very very good team. Very consistant every year, great coaching, tough and very physical.
Sutter can hold their own and they could win games in D3 and the VOL.

 

[ThunderRam]

The 2008 Juniors produced one of the best DO teams I’ve seen, the 2009 team.

Funny, but when discussing the topic of the best teams in a programs history, I've often said that there are teams that didn't win a section title that were better than ones that did. DO's 2009 team is a prime example. That team was one of their very best, but doesn't have a title to show for it. They played in one of the best playoff fields I've ever seen in the SJS and came up a little bit short. But that team would have won in many other seasons. Same goes for 2009 Grant Union, St. Mary's and Folsom. All great teams, just happened to play in a season when there were several super teams in the the SJS.

Another that comes to mind is Nevada Union's 1996 team that went 9-1 with the only loss coming on the final play against Matt Barnes and Del Campo. That team didn't even get to participate in the postseason since DC and Grant Union were also 9-1 and in a 3-way tie for 2 league playoff spots. But that team was as good or better than some of their teams that did win section.

How crazy is it that a 9-1 team didn't make the playoffs?? It's so strange to think about in this era where a 2-8 team can make it. Lots of teams that may have been able to run the table got cheated out of the opportunity under the old system.

 

[feedback1]

#5 does apply as you call out BUT it is a judgement call by the committee in this case and not an automatic promotion as in the case of #4. I don't know the exact reasoning why DO was not recommended/approved for D1 but @playsomeball mentioned in a thread in October something about coaching change which seems kind of lame to me on CIF's part is that is true. Obviously DO would meet #4 criteria if they beat Granite Bay Saturday.

I can't remember a single case where the section has not moved up a team that met the documented criteria. I don't know what the section was thinking, but I am assuming it was an over-sight. I don't buy the coaching loss as a reason. The section has take a lot of effort to document their rules and procedures, and it just does not fit their methods to consider something as intangible as the coaching loss (which some may argue is more than offset by the retention of all but 2 coaches).

 

[smashmouthrick]

I can't remember a single case where the section has not moved up a team that met the documented criteria. I don't know what the section was thinking, but I am assuming it was an over-sight. I don't buy the coaching loss as a reason. The section has take a lot of effort to document their rules and procedures, and it just does not fit their methods to consider something as intangible as the coaching loss (which some may argue is more than offset by the retention of all but 2 coaches).

I have a hard time believing it was oversight on part of CIF and I also don’t buy the coach change reasoning as well. They must have brought the topic to the table then made a decision based on reasoning we don’t know about. To me the question is what was the reasoning?

Maybe the other cases you mention where teams were moved up that met “continued success” criteria can shed some light on the reasoning for the DO case. Can you provide an example or two?

 

[WWHS44]

PSB,

Folsom frosh had an off season. they got walloped by everyone except Woodcreek.....and Oakdale.......most likely not a good comparision?

 

[mustang1970]

PSB,

Folsom frosh had an off season. they got walloped by everyone except Woodcreek.....and Oakdale.......most likely not a good comparision?

Good point. That is why I decided to ask the Oakdale coach, who came up with them from their undefeated youth football team, why it was so close. He, as well as players, told me how disappointed they were in their effort (worst game of year). If you look at schedule and results, including a late in the year game with Sutter, you would see that they are indeed a team to watch out for. Interesting side note: in that last game their running back, Saffar, has 317 yds in first half alone. Running game looking good for foreseeable future if you count the other rbs in the system as well.

 

[playsomeball]

I can't remember a single case where the section has not moved up a team that met the documented criteria. I don't know what the section was thinking, but I am assuming it was an over-sight. I don't buy the coaching loss as a reason. The section has take a lot of effort to document their rules and procedures, and it just does not fit their methods to consider something as intangible as the coaching loss (which some may argue is more than offset by the retention of all but 2 coaches).

PSB,

Folsom frosh had an off season. they got walloped by everyone except Woodcreek.....and Oakdale.......most likely not a good comparision?

Don't forget Inderkum. They lost 16-13

 

[playsomeball]

Don't forget Inderkum. They lost 16-13

Folsom lost 16-13