Centen is No 2 in State just behind SJ Don Bosco. Pitt has played them several years now. Other than Centen's meeting with DLS nobodyy nobody in NCS can lay claim about playing them. That is how tough Pitt schedules their plays. So lets see!
NCS Brackets
- Thread starter noknight
- Start date
Based on the schedules the 2&3 seed played I’m not sure why any team would challenge themselves who want to be considered for the open. Liberty at least plays a D1 league schedule preseason wasn’t worthy of a open team. CVC plays a D2/3 league and scheduled a D5 team, along with some Terrible teams other than Pitt to round out their schedule. The only other note worthy team they played they lost to. In my opinion Open teams should challenge themselves to be considered. Pitt definitely challenged themselves and for their troubles teams that didn’t get higher seeding. I get why Liberty is they won Pitts league, and played a D1 schedule. I mean if league title and record is all that matters Las Lomas won league title and they were undefeated, why are they not worthy under these flimsy requirements? Want to be a open team challenge yourself like elite teams should.
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Agree, but in this case the head to head results have to count.But I hear what you’re saying
Head to head carries little weight in my opinion especially week 1 when teams have had little to no contact and just figuring it out. Heck Antioch’s win over CV carries no weight when they play a D1 schedule? Again there are much better teams that frankly have the same or better resumes that could have been chosen. Only two of the 4 teams in the open have any shot to represent NorCal with a chance in open state, and those two teams will face each other in game 1 NorCal open. Makes much more sense to add a Bishop, or CN, MC, LL, to open since they wouldn’t be eliminated from state bowl games if they lose. We are now to the point of rewarding teams that don’t challenge themselves or play open schedules, or even D1 schedules for that matter when they are D1. Yet penalize D2/3 teams that schedule up?
I think if Las Lomas had beaten Pitt head to head, they would have been in the mix. They got the right 4 teams in there. Unfortunately for Pitt, they lost the 2 most important games they played all season, albeit close losses.
Point missed. Again I don’t think Las Lomas is a open team either. But they won League had a perfect record so...........What about Antioch they won the head to head played a D1 schedule that carries no weight? I think this is setting a precedent for teams to back into the open, I mean why challenge yourself? Simply use the preaseason and regular season as organized scrimmages against clearly inferior competition, stay relatively healthy avoid the 4th seed and hopefully be the coveted loser that plays on. Just not how sports should be.
Totally agree about your scheduling point. IMO, Pitt is the 2nd best team in Ncs behind DLS.
I'm not sure if you appreciate the irony of your name choice, but let me restate what you're saying...
Two teams play a game. The road team beats the home team. You respond "I don't care, the home team is still better, regardless of the outcome of this game. Therefore, the home team should STILL be given more credit, EVEN THOUGH THE FIRST TIEBREAKER IN VIRTUALLY EVERY LEVEL OF EVERY SPORT IS HEAD-TO-HEAD."
Maybe the NFL should go back and award the Lombardi trophy to the Patriots that year they went 18-0 but lost to the Giants?
The notion that somehow any team should be seeded above a team they lost to simply because they played a tougher schedule my be the single most misguided one I've ever heard. Why bother to play the game if the outcome has no bearing on the future?
So, Mr. Truthhertz, the TRUTH is that CVC beat Pitt (regardless of how much that hurts), and thus has no claim to a higher seed. Want to be seeded higher than them? BEAT THEM!
Now that they're official...
Several eligible schools must have declined to apply for the playoffs.
Open went exactly as predicted
D1: committee dinged MV (but that whole top 5 seeding was always going to be a mess) and newcomer Vintage apparently had no friends in the room
D2: @slick58 was right, Rancho over BOD. I guess they made up for dinging Vintage by boosting American Canyon, sending Monty on the road. Alhambra gets a generous #10 seed
D3 & D4: no earthshattering surprises other than only 12 teams applied in D4
Gonna have to stew on some of these before coming up with predictions. Right now, hard to imagine the top 2 seeds not reaching the finals in D3 & D4. Could easily imagine any of the top 5 getting there in D1 & D2. The big battle will be that Liberty/CVC game in 2 weeks.
Sigh. Not a Pitt fan in the least, in fact I think they under achieve on a regular basis when you consider talent that comes through there. But if head to head carries so much weight with you what about Antioch? They beat CV head to head that doesn’t matter to you though right? Personally I think Pitt is the only team to challenge themselves in regards of being looked at as a open worthy team. Pitt and DLS are the only two teams that realistically stand a chance in a open state bowl game. And that chance is slim for Pitt at best. I would rather see DLS just awarded the open and let everybody else play it out for D1. I certainly don’t support teams scheduling push overs and getting invites to the open bracket regardless of their lone head to head win in any given week, league schedule is one thing have to play that, but to schedule push overs and get rewarded is pathetic.
Again, Pitt controlled their own destiny. If they wanted to be seeded ahead of CVC or Liberty, they knew what they had to do. There's a saying - "in order to be the best, you have to beat the best." Pitt didn't do that, and no amount of spinning is going to change that.
Not spinning anything. I feel open teams should play quality opponents. You seem ok with teams playing D2/3/4/& even D5 teams and being considered. I personally think that’s weak. It’s also probably why NorCal teams not named DLS struggle when faced with formidable opponents or DLS. No hiding in sports. I don’t think Pitt is a open team either, I think all 3 should be in D1 bracket and winner of that moves on.
No not a Folsom fan. I do think that a true NorCal open bracket would include Folsom. I also however think Folsom under schedules their season as well. It’s also not my first day on these boards this praticular board however blocks people for what amounts to disagreements on topics. I fully expect a ban for questioning how the open bracket is/was handled. I was previously banned for making the observation a team could beat their competition “if they were forced to run backwards” and that ruffled feathers.
NCS football playoffs: Clayton Valley gets No. 3 seed in Open
https://www.mercurynews.com/2018/10/28/ncs-football-playoffs-clayton-valley-gets-no-3-seed-in-open/
https://www.mercurynews.com/2018/10/28/ncs-football-playoffs-clayton-valley-gets-no-3-seed-in-open/
Trying to put on my Pitt colored glasses, but I just don't see it. Strength of schedule is useful for determining seedings if you don't have a head to head result. The coup for Clayton Valley was scheduling and beating Pitt, it was the only way for them to escape the #4 seed.
By “competitive”, I’m assuming you mean the strength of all of the teams. In actuality, it is probably the least competitive playoff bracket in the nation, as the private powerhouse DLS has now won it 26 years in a row and counting. Teams 2-4 are very competitive.
I hope the #2 and #3 seeds play the game as they're worth and whoever wins play competitively with DLS. If DLS blows them out, I wouldn't be surprised! And if CVC gets blown out by Liberty, that won't justify their #3 seed. The seeding committee has done it wrong!
Teams 2-4 are competitive with who? Not sure they compete with DLS and if Lady Luck does strike here, the only team that prepared for what’s coming is Pitt. CVC might be able to keep it to a 4 score difference because they run the ball so hopefully they can control the clock.(doubt it) But most likely they go for it every 4th down like they are playing concord high and it’s a running clock in the second half.
I agree committee and formatting is wrong. I don’t think there is 4 teams worthy of a open bid this year. At best there is two. Rest should all be in D1 bracket and winner of that moves on. Sending anybody other than DLS, Folsom, or maybe Pitt(however I doubt they compete) would be a train wreck for NorCal football.
I just noticed that 3-7 Newark somehow made the D3 bracket. They started off the season 0-5 and in their 7 losses they’ve been out scored 354-82, and gave up more than 45 points 6 times. Their only 3 wins were against MVAL opponents 1-9 American, 1-9 Washington & 2-10 Irvington. But since they were .500 in the MVAL they earned a ticket to the dance. Las Lomas can simply name their score in this first round matchup.
http://www.maxpreps.com/tournament/...b-tires-football-championships-division-3.htm
http://www.maxpreps.com/tournament/...b-tires-football-championships-division-3.htm
Great question. I didn't know the answer, so here is what I found:
1. Competitive equity adjustments will be based on the most recent three-year period of competition in the NCS Championships.
a. In subsequent years a new year is added and the oldest year of competitive data is removed.
2. Any team averaging 8.0 (points) or higher during the three-year period of competition in the NCS Championships using thr following scale would be required to move to the next higher division.
a. 15 points for winning a section championship.
b. 10 points for playing in the section championship contest
c. 6 points for playing in a semifinal game
d. 3 points for playing in a quarterfinal game
e. 1 point for entering the section championships as a (league) champion or at-large team.
3. All teams promoted based on No. 2 will be locked into the higher division.
4. No team will move more than one division from the previous year’s divisional assignment to the current year’s divisional assignment.
5. Once promoted, points from a lower division will not be considered in a subsequent promotion.
6. Once promoted, teams will leave the promoted division if they have less than 8 points earned in all divisions in the last three years.
7. When a team is required to move to a higher division another team is in the higher division is moved down to the next lower division. The criteria to determine which team(s) to move down to the lower division will be as follows:
a. The school in the higher division with the lowest point total under number two above will be moved one division lower.
b. If there are teams tied with the lowest point total the tie will be broken by the enrollment of the school. The school with the lowest point total and the smallest enrollment would be moved to the next lower division.
8. Petitioning will be allowed to a higher division. The petitioning process will be conducted according to the dates established by the Board of Managers.
So for Moreau, their current 3 year point total in football is 12 based on losing in the semifinals in 2015 (6 points), losing in the quarterfinals in 2016 (3 points) and losing in the quarterfinals in 2017 (3 points), giving them a 3 year average of 4. If they were to win it all this season, they would pick up 15 points, but that 2015 result would drop out, so they'd have 21 points in 2019, which is a 7 average, meaning that they're probably going to be Division IV again next season even if they win.
Alright, it's time to put an end to this before you and truthhertz pull a muscle with all of the whining and sour grapes.
https://www.nfl.com/standings/tiebreakingprocedures
So three different organizations (NFL, the Pac-12 and the NBA) all use head-to-head to break any ties. How is this remotely hard to understand?
Doing a little digging, it looks to me that...
Kelseyville (6 points in 2017 and 6 points in 2016) or Middletown (10 points in 2017 and 3 points in 2016) would get moved to D4 next year if they win.
Both Fortuna (15 points in 2017) and St. Bernard (6 points in 2017 and 10 points in 2016) would get bumped up to D3 if they reach the D4 finals (win or lose).
Given that Campo has won D2 the last two years, based on the criteria laid out above, I don't see how they don't get bumped to D1.
Lol, the only one not getting it here is you. I understand tie breakers, head to head, etc......it was never the point. The point is 1/2 of the NorCal open bracket didn’t play a schedule worthy of a open team! So why in The world are they being put in the open? Look you want to send the JV squad down to rep NorCal in the states elite bracket I’m fine with that. You’re ok with NorCal open teams playing D5-4-3 teams to back into the kushy 2-3 spot to be the “loser” to play on team then great I guess. But don’t come on here crying foul if one of those teams actually somehow makes the state open title game and gets blitzed into oblivion because they weren’t prepared for elite competition. I can hear it now the Socal has different rules, private school, blabbering that so prevalent on this board. Truth is these teams didn’t prep to be open teams and it shows by their schedule. Like I said plenty of division winners who are undefeated why not place them into the open, and ditch both Pitt and CV since both have blemishes?
The only team from the NCS Open bracket that is going to rep NorCal in the state’s elite bracket is DLS. If one of those other 3 should somehow manage to beat the Green Machine and then lose in the state Open final, then I’m sure they’d still be mighty proud having beaten Sparty.
If only 2 teams in the entire NCS are worthy of repping NorCal then what’s the point of even having a regular season? The committee got the top 4 teams right for the Open. No way the 4th place team from the BVAL Antioch should get in, nor should 3 loss teams (even if 1 was DLS) MV or Cal. And any suggestions that a private like CN or Moreau get in were quickly dismissed even by their own followers.
Then it comes down to how those 4 best teams in the NCS will be seeded. I know you don’t like CVC, but they did beat Pitt head to head, as did Liberty. It’s well known that the NCS has always loved to default to the head to head, even when the loser has a much better record. In this case, both Liberty and CVC had better records and a better win (Pitt) than Pitt did (SMS or Serra?). It was an obvious call.
CVC should be placed either into the BVAL or the EBAL Mountain for at least both football and hoops, but that’s another discussion.
Again my point is clear. If you don’t book a schedule worthy of being in the open then you don’t belong in the open. And if you are going to book a schedule that looks like a CN, MC, BO, etc, then those teams should be considered with the same weight. Also if any team is just happy to get by the boys in green then it’s easy to see why the dominance by them has lasted so long. Like I said this board will be flooded with the cries of different rules, private schools, recruiting, you name it. When fact is to be and beat the best you to prepare like you’re the best, 2 of the 4 didn’t. Because of that I feel they should be in D1 bracket and winner of that bracket moves on.
Totally agree about Clayton going to either the BVAL or EBAL. Long overdue, especially since they’ve been an NCS Open participant for at least the last two seasons.
Not sure what it matters at this point where they play. I mean most everybody here seems to support the idea that their schedule doesn’t matter. Your right been a open participant last two years and scheduled like they are a D3 team and were rewarded for it with a open bid again. So what’s the incentive to move or schedule up again?
I don’t think anyone supports the idea that a team’s schedule doesn’t matter. Every schedule has some key games, and you have to win those in order to reach your goals. CVC and Liberty each won the most important game on their schedule to get into the much preferred 2-3 slot.
I think you're being a bit of a drama queen here, but I do kind of agree that DLS is the elephant in the room. Personally, I think the fairest way of doing this would be to modify the NCS playoffs so that the teams knocked out in the first round get bumped back down to their division brackets. Imagine the following NCS D1 bracket:
1 - highest seeded Open semifinal loser
2 - lowest seeded Open semifinal loser
3 - Antioch
4 - California
5 - Freedom
6 - San Ramon Valley
7 - Monte Vista
8 - Amador Valley
9 - San Leandro
10 - Vintage
11 - James Logan
12 - Dougherty Valley
Now nobody's season ends after that first week in the open. Assuming higher seeds win all games, it sets up the following quarterfinals:
#1 CVC vs. #8 Amador Valley
#2 Pitt vs. #7 Monte Vista
#3 Antioch vs. #6 SRV
#4 Cal vs. #5 Freedom
You could even work the brackets so that the Open final loser gets knocked into the D1 semis (kind of like a double elimination bracket). Then let the D1 winner advance.
Having said ALL of that, the system worked correctly here as it's designed. Pitt is seeded 4th because they lost to the teams seeded 2nd and 3rd. That is what some people just don't seem to grasp.
Well, my point is that the BVAL and EBAL are D1 leagues, so Clayton would be playing mostly D1 schools the majority of its schedule if it were in either league. As opposed to playing D3 and D2 schools that were on their schedule this year
Outstanding post noknight. That is the exact scenario that should be in play. That way, teams have an incentive to make the Open and get a crack at Sparty, but are still alive if they don’t shock the world and everyone else still has a shot at the other state game if they just keep winning. A lower division team having a great season like CN or Moreau could take their chance at DLS, but not have their season end and get out back into their original division bracket. I like it.
This is growing on me ^^ I really like the base idea here
The OPEN losers could only be put back into the D1 level as those would be the only spots saved in this scenario. (even if lower division teams)
If you saved a spot in D2 (if BOD was placed in the OPEN), what would happen to that spot if (god forbid) they beat DLS?
But Im sure in the scenario of a D2/3 team in the OPEN that they would be Ok if they got put back into D1 rather than their season over.
I personally think its a GREAT idea.....
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