Agreed on Jesuit. They typically start slow under Blanton. Folsom is just a bad matchup because Jesuit can’t match the speed that Folsom has. I think Jesuit can hang with any other team in the SJS if healthy.
SFL After Week 2
- Thread starter smashmouthrick
- Start date
Agreed on Jesuit. They typically start slow under Blanton. Folsom is just a bad matchup because Jesuit can’t match the speed that Folsom has. I think Jesuit can hang with any other team in the SJS if healthy.
I agree. I wouldn't be surprised to see Jesuit make a run this year if they can stay healthy. Some dicey injuries against Folsom last week. Tough matchup for a first game of the year.
Not surprised you say that looking at the balance of their schedule.
Both Central and Grant will always have more and superior athletes over Folsom. Central is on the West of Fresno where all the athletes are bred. Grant is on the North end of Sac where all the athletes are bred. West Fresno has been producing stud, freak athletes for decades and so has North Sac. Both of those regions of Cali had been overlooked by the SoCal superior athletes for a long time but not no more. The "No" had a ton of athletes in the 80's in which solidified them as a very talented and athletic town in Cali. Just to drop a few names from the early 80's you have Tim Mcdonald (49ers), Henry Ellard (Rams), Icky Woods (Bengals), Vestee Jackson (Bears) Kevin Sweeney (Cowboys). All of these players except for Sweeney were all-pro NFL players. All of them played HS football in the early 80's. And a lot of these players offsprings and relatives are still playing on the WEST side of Fresno. Now that's talent.
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What makes you think they aren’t better than those teams? Have either one of those teams played a team the caliber of central? Grant had a melt down both teams are stacked central was a little better but that’s expected I mean they did make it to regionals last year and played good against Folsom. Grant is lacking size which will hurt them this year but there’s only 1 sfl team that will be able to match their speed. This notion that grant will struggle with teams that it never struggled with before is crazy. We lack the little things that’s fixable.
In folsoms 7 year run we still produced more nfl players. Folsom has a great system and it works but unless they get and wave of talent coming in we know folsom doesn’t produce high caliber athletes. Grant 28 folsom 14 book it
I look forward to seeing Grant in the SFL, they have class fans and they have been a long time dominant program over decades. They have had the historical edge over D.O. going back to likes of 08 I think, but a close series with close games, last win came at home Del Oro victory in OT. This year my guess is the Pacers will go 3-3 vs. SFL, with wins v. Whitney, Rocklin, and Granite Bay. I see Folsom, Oak Ridge and Del Oro beating Grant this year. Grant will out athlete most teams. SFL teams out prepare, out coach, and are physical/disciplined. Alot of very athletic teams playing SFL teams get out hit and lose the turnover game and the 4th quarter. Grant has a benchmark home game this week and we'll see how their coaching stands up to Coach T, his staff, and a good Capital Christian opponent.
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Del Oro and granite bay is two programs I grew to respect once we started playing them. I couldn’t figure out how natomas will lose to these teams every year. Then granite bay moved up to d1 and we scheduled Del Oro and I realized how good both teams are. Oak ridge too I still believe Austin Cauley is one of the sjs best athletes ever I’ve witnesses him beat a grant team with 3 future nfl players on it and at times he looked like the best player on the field... this year could be bumpy for grant because it’s finally lacking in size but we do have good skill players this year we have to get more consistent with passing but I like the new direction we are moving in. Being more balance should help a lot we had our fare share of stacked boxes
First, I’m not an SFL guy, nor am ‘bitter’ or” lazy fan”. LOL
I played against the G when they were in the CAL many moons ago. I haven’t seen them lately, so I won’t pretend to have an opinion based on their current roster. My opinion is based of what I witnessed over so many years, and what I see going on around town elsewhere. First, I have no doubt that the Pacers can, and always have produced some of the best athletes around. But, over the years, the team and program has always been a highly penalized team that seems to make many mistakes (mostly mental). As a Grant fan you can probably remember time and time again when they’ve ‘beaten themselves’. They’ve had some amazing teams in the past, and I’ve rooted for them as they have represented the region well. I do think Inderkum takes some of their ‘athletes’ now, but Grant never needed many Natomas residents to create some of their monster teams before. Your own quote above about Grant’s “better talent and size” speaks volumes. That “better talent and size” finished under .500 in a weaker league than the SFL. Why?? Maybe because they simply don’t maximize it.
Additionally, I do believe the housing and population explosion in Sactown has raised the game of other schools. 10-20 years ago, the Grant Jr Pacers were always one of the Top 2 programs in town (along with the Jr Miners of NU). Things change, new powerhouses emerge. Can Grant be great again...of course. But the original poster seemed to think they’ll be back to ‘the top’ just because ‘they’ve done it before’. (Ask Nevada Union and Elk Grove how hats been working for them). Well I have news....it’s tougher out there now. Sacramento Region football is deeper than ever before. The SFL is deep. There are more quality teams in town than ever, and there are schools out there with size and talent to match Grants, and IMHO, with far superior coaching, and feeder programs.
Just one man’s opinion.
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At the end of the day, who the hell really cares who wins the “most athletes” title? Is your program puting plaques on the wall or not?
A lot of valid points a few things we had problems with for decades. We have probably have some of the best youth football teams in Sacramento right here in our neighborhood it with jr pacers,inderkum and natomas nighthawks. Don’t get me wrong the drop off in talent is evident but it’s not as crazy as you may think grant will have another former paces in the nfl again next year possibly 2. Being in the sfl will be a learning experience but people make it seem like we’re are facing teams we never seen before. If sac high can play and beat Folsom why wouldn’t I believe grant can do it. Sac high hasn’t even won a d2 title yet. What we know is if your team can play man against Folsom you’ll have a shot to beat em. Nobody had sac high beating folsom even in the rematch sac high looked like the better team. It was 21-19 til folsom called time outs to score again to stretch the lead when they were a knee away from winning the game.
Good insight and points @mrbig864
My “Only a matter of time before Grant is back on top... & Grant has been at the top before..." assume they will eventually clean up their act with lack of discipline and acquire/develop coaching it takes to field a highly competitive team. By "top" I mean play at the SFL level i.e. competitive where they are consistently trading W/L with OR/DO/GB.
The SFL, as most folks here acknowledge, play disciplined ball. It is my opinion that Grant will get the message loud and clear that fielding great athletes with out discipline will not cut it in SFL. Not to say they won't win games in their current state/system but won't do it consistently year in and year out and this will(IMO) drive the change needed. I can be completely off base here as I don't live in DPH but the premise I base my aforementioned opinion on is that the Grant/DPH community has a strong identity with Grant football and will drive necessary change for success.
Start of season would agree SFL was tough, different story now! Rocklin, GB, Whitney not your daddy's SFL. Del Oro question mark as SOS is low going into league, Oak Ridge first real test is Folsom. Week 3 you could say Grant is in the SFL hunt as much as any team but Folsom.
Should be Folsom, Del Oro, and Oak Ridge at the top. I think the other 3 are a wash.
Yeah, I think Grant needs an overhaul. Maybe the word dinosaur is too harsh but time for a change in the coaching ranks... Progress. Keep up with the times. A lot has changed and will continue to do so. Who would have thought that the Brentwood area would be a hotbed today? Liberty/Freedom/Heritage pumping out major talent. All the push out from the east bay. People move, populations change... Always evolving. I can tell you this. Grant on the schedule doesn't carry the weight it once did. Nobody fears them like the good ole days.
I think the top 3 Folsom and then a distant 2nd is OR followed by DO will have no trouble with the lower tier SFL this year.
I think the top 3 Folsom and then a distant 2nd is OR followed by DO will have no trouble with the lower tier SFL this year.
Yep, Folsom, Oak Ridge, Del Oro, then a battle between Grant and the other 3.
Sac high blew the doors off the vaunted bulldogs then lost to inderkum who got blew out by Del Oro who I believed got blown out by folsom and couple other teams that year. My point is it’s about match ups. To think grant can’t compete with Del Oro oakridge and Folsom is crazy. Those programs were all good years ago so I don’t know how much they could’ve gotten considering only folsom had won a section title and Del Oro has lost its coach. Last time grant played Del Oro the game went to over time AND THAT WAS A 4 LOSS grant team. I know grant ain’t what it once was but what team with the history grant has is these days. Grant was 4-6 last year and played Jesuit down to the wire with a 4th string qb and Jesuit gave folsom all it could handle in the play offs.
I agree with smashsmouth. This is how I see it ending up.
1. Folsom
2. Oak Ridge
3.Del Oro
4.Rocklin
5. Granite Bay
6. Grant
7. Whitney
1. Folsom
2. Oak Ridge
3.Del Oro
4.Rocklin
5. Granite Bay
6. Grant
7. Whitney
That’s why you play the games. An injury here or there a meltdown by a team that is “supposed” to win can change outcomes. W/L & CP ratings are a reasonable guide for predicting outcomes but each year there are new team factors I.e. new athletes, new schemes, etc that create new matchup challenges flipping expected outcomes of games that were not anticipated.
"Blowing the doors" off someone is not winning a game 32-27 on a few miracle turnovers. The poster who said this is extremely disingenuous. But as @smashmouthrick said, that is why you play the games. By that standard, Sac High getting beat at home, 28-19, against a team of all juniors was much more of a "blowing the doors off" kind of game. Just too many athletes.
I would argue that a 52-21 score, which was the last time Folsom and Grant played, would be much more considered "blowing the doors off." 51-14 last week versus Jesuit would certainly qualify.
But that's just my humble opinion.
I would argue that a 52-21 score, which was the last time Folsom and Grant played, would be much more considered "blowing the doors off." 51-14 last week versus Jesuit would certainly qualify.
But that's just my humble opinion.
28-19 was a stretch. Folsom called timeouts with the game already in the bag jut to score to stretch the lead that was. 21-19 game with 30 secs remaining and talk about miracle turnovers without those Folsom would’ve lost the rematch. Luckily we get to settle this on the field and your score predictions are always off so that’s a plus for me 35-14 book it
Sounds like more excuses.
Keep your sights set on Whitney. That game should be a dandy.
SFL after week#2
What did we learn week#2?
Folsom:
SOS through week 2 based on CP snapshot today:
Folsom: 69.9->71.3, SOS 43.8, margin 21.3
Oak Ridge: 32.8->41.1, SOS 14.5, margin 35.6
Del Oro: 30.6->35.4, SOS 4.2, margin 37
Granite Bay: 9.9->22.6, SOS 35.1, margin -6.3
Rocklin: 12.5->16.9, SOS 19.1, margin 9.3
Grant: 10.1->9, SOS 23.3, margin -10.6
Whitney: -0.8->6.9, SOS 32.3, margin -26.5
My week#2 SFL ranking:
1 Folsom
2 Oak Ridge
3 Del Oro
4 Rocklin moves up from 5
What did we learn week#2?
Folsom:
- Nothing new from Folsom, continue to roll
- Could have put up 70+ on Jesuit had they left the big dawgs in all game
- Squashed a usually good but down Reed team
- Defense looks to be solid, some numbers against Reed: 3 sacks, 2 int’s, 2 forced fumbles, shut down run game limiting run to 57yards
- Gave up 400+yards against pass between Lincoln and Reed, may be something to watch if bulk yardage was not in garbage time
- Seem to be pretty balanced between run and pass game through 3 games
- Played no one through 3 games. I usually had a good feel for where DO was at preseason during CT era as they played a tough preseason but may not know where DO is until after first league game with GB
- DO has looked very good with all facets of their game but again they have not been stressed
- One of the best special teams I’ve seen from DO. The “Rocket” looks dangerous on kick and punt returns and kicker can play on Saturdays
- DO fundamentals at OL/DL look good but yet again they played no one
- Pass game “looks” very good, QB/receiver timing is getting dialed in. If DO OL can hold up in SFL with pass protection DO pass game can be a weapon but not getting ahead of myself
- GB offense woke up vs Jesuit. Hopefully this is a trend for GB
- Continue to show good defense, limited Jesuit to ~250yards of offense
- Scored 9x more points vs Jesuit than total points of first two games combined
- Some Cooper influence?
- Played Damonte Ranch a lot tougher than GB, GB lost to DR 28-0
- Lost a close one to DR 42-35
- Don’t sleep on Rocklin
- Playing a very good Liberty team this week, they will be battle tester for league opener
- Oh boy, sad to say the game vs CC was ugly, lost at home 42-14
- Learned nothing new, same old story, discipline, QB situation and coaching, come on G!
- Lost to a good Central team at home by Similar score that Grant lost to Central
- Played two good teams, Placer & Central, and lost both with combined score of 91-38
- Not exactly SFL caliber but they have played someone which is more than I can say for DO
SOS through week 2 based on CP snapshot today:
Folsom: 69.9->71.3, SOS 43.8, margin 21.3
Oak Ridge: 32.8->41.1, SOS 14.5, margin 35.6
Del Oro: 30.6->35.4, SOS 4.2, margin 37
Granite Bay: 9.9->22.6, SOS 35.1, margin -6.3
Rocklin: 12.5->16.9, SOS 19.1, margin 9.3
Grant: 10.1->9, SOS 23.3, margin -10.6
Whitney: -0.8->6.9, SOS 32.3, margin -26.5
My week#2 SFL ranking:
1 Folsom
2 Oak Ridge
3 Del Oro
4 Rocklin moves up from 5
- Played a Damonte Ranch team a lot better vs Granite Bay
- O woke up this week but got shut out vs team Rocklin took down to the wire
- Not much separates G from Whitney, I’m stretching but G played Central away just as competitive as Whitney played Central at home so keeping them at 6 for now
Great breakdown! Kudos!SFL after week#2
What did we learn week#2?
Folsom:
Oak Ridge:
- Nothing new from Folsom, continue to roll
- Could have put up 70+ on Jesuit had they left the big dawgs in all game
Del Oro:
- Squashed a usually good but down Reed team
- Defense looks to be solid, some numbers against Reed: 3 sacks, 2 int’s, 2 forced fumbles, shut down run game limiting run to 57yards
- Gave up 400+yards against pass between Lincoln and Reed, may be something to watch if bulk yardage was not in garbage time
- Seem to be pretty balanced between run and pass game through 3 games
Granite Bay:
- Played no one through 3 games. I usually had a good feel for where DO was at preseason during CT era as they played a tough preseason but may not know where DO is until after first league game with GB
- DO has looked very good with all facets of their game but again they have not been stressed
- One of the best special teams I’ve seen from DO. The “Rocket” looks dangerous on kick and punt returns and kicker can play on Saturdays
- DO fundamentals at OL/DL look good but yet again they played no one
- Pass game “looks” very good, QB/receiver timing is getting dialed in. If DO OL can hold up in SFL with pass protection DO pass game can be a weapon but not getting ahead of myself
Rocklin:
- GB offense woke up vs Jesuit. Hopefully this is a trend for GB
- Continue to show good defense, limited Jesuit to ~250yards of offense
- Scored 9x more points vs Jesuit than total points of first two games combined
- Some Cooper influence?
Grant:
- Played Damonte Ranch a lot tougher than GB, GB lost to DR 28-0
- Lost a close one to DR 42-35
- Don’t sleep on Rocklin
- Playing a very good Liberty team this week, they will be battle tester for league opener
Whitney:
- Oh boy, sad to say the game vs CC was ugly, lost at home 42-14
- Learned nothing new, same old story, discipline, QB situation and coaching, come on G!
- Lost to a good Central team at home by Similar score that Grant lost to Central
- Played two good teams, Placer & Central, and lost both with combined score of 91-38
- Not exactly SFL caliber but they have played someone which is more than I can say for DO
SOS through week 2 based on CP snapshot today:
Folsom: 69.9->71.3, SOS 43.8, margin 21.3
Oak Ridge: 32.8->41.1, SOS 14.5, margin 35.6
Del Oro: 30.6->35.4, SOS 4.2, margin 37
Granite Bay: 9.9->22.6, SOS 35.1, margin -6.3
Rocklin: 12.5->16.9, SOS 19.1, margin 9.3
Grant: 10.1->9, SOS 23.3, margin -10.6
Whitney: -0.8->6.9, SOS 32.3, margin -26.5
My week#2 SFL ranking:
1 Folsom
2 Oak Ridge
3 Del Oro
4 Rocklin moves up from 5
5 Granite Bay moves down from 4
- Played a Damonte Ranch team a lot better vs Granite Bay
6 Grant
- O woke up this week but got shut out vs team Rocklin took down to the wire
7 Whitney
- Not much separates G from Whitney, I’m stretching but G played Central away just as competitive as Whitney played Central at home so keeping them at 6 for now
Absolutely. I alway respect the DO's of the world. But for now I think OR is a solid #2. If you haven't seen OR QB play do yourself a favor and watch a game. You don't see that many kids his size move and throw like he does. I think OR made a huge a mistake not starting him last year and moving Baldachino to a slot receiver.
Should be a fun middle of the pack year. Don't sleep on Whitney. They have played a brutal schedule.
Should be a fun middle of the pack year. Don't sleep on Whitney. They have played a brutal schedule.
In GB's defense, they traveled the hills up to Reno while Rocklin got'em at home. That can often make a difference.
Having said that, I do believe Rocklin's offense is much more potent than GB's -- which has been a weakness for the Griz as of late -- but they did perform well against Jesuit (who I felt was being drastically overrated).
@ThunderRam, I struggled with this decision and Rocklin’s loss to Antelope at home bugs me but both teams played DR in back to back weeks with Rocklin scoring 35 more points on DM vs GB’s 0. Home field is always an advantage but I’m not thinking it is a 35 to 0 point difference maker.
On the flip side GB limited DR to 28 vs Rocklin giving up 42 however loss margin for Rocklin/DR is 7 vs GB/DR loss margin of 28.
Problem is we won’t see Rocklin vs GB head to head until last league game so won’t know for sure till then. Lot of ball to play between now and then.
Will may get a bit more insight on Rocklin vs GB relative positioning after Rocklin plays Liberty and GB plays Vacaville. Liberty beat Vacaville 35-10, GB plays Vacaville this week and Rocklin plays Liberty this week.
On the flip side GB limited DR to 28 vs Rocklin giving up 42 however loss margin for Rocklin/DR is 7 vs GB/DR loss margin of 28.
Problem is we won’t see Rocklin vs GB head to head until last league game so won’t know for sure till then. Lot of ball to play between now and then.
Will may get a bit more insight on Rocklin vs GB relative positioning after Rocklin plays Liberty and GB plays Vacaville. Liberty beat Vacaville 35-10, GB plays Vacaville this week and Rocklin plays Liberty this week.
For me, I try to not pay too much attention to differential. When it's all said and done at the end of the season, GB may very well beat Rocklin proving that the 35 point difference was what I believe it to be --- inconsequential.
I get that people love to look at common scores as a measuring stick when 2 teams haven't played, but I just feel it is meaningless. Sure, sometimes the stars align perfectly and make it seem like the method works. But we routinely see the Team A > Team B > Team C > Team A situation, as well as a team getting revenge from an early season blowout (e.g., Rocklin-Del Oro in 2015).
I get that you're buying into the notion that GB and Rocklin played their common opponent 1 week apart. But I still believe there's no correlation.
Case in point, Folsom and Central Catholic-Modesto faced De La Salle 1 week apart. Folsom didn't score against the Spartans whereas Central had 7 on the board at half. Does that tell us that the Raiders offense >>> than Folsom's? Of course we all know that's not the case.
Just something else to think about.
Rocklin has a huge game coming up against a very talented Liberty team. Not too often do you see 4 and 5 star QB's on consecutive weeks. I would love to see Rocklin make a strong statement in this game but I have a feeling Liberty is a pretty big notch above what Rocklin has seen so far.
Agree, points and counter points can always be made. So many intangibles to consider when ranking so much is based on opinion. CP provides unbiased numbers, we socialize the rest, isn’t socializing football here what it is all about?
Awesome statement. People complain about Calpreps, but they provide unbiased numbers, based on factual data, and not emotions.
I always think its funny when people point to polls from "random experts" who claim to know more than the data. But I will admit, some polls can be helpful.
Unbiased numbers, but stats in themselves can be biased. Because they can never tell the entire story.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not a Calpreps hater. I actually love it. Because I'm a stat geek. But I also realize it should be taken with a grain of salt. For example, I pay zero attention to the predict a matchup feature. I see people cite it all the time. I find it to be a silly waste of time.
IMO, what makes Calpreps useful beyond the archiving of records is the ability to rate teams by compiling all games played. Not all 10-0, 9-1, 8-2 teams are the same. Calpreps can help identify which of those types of team records are hollow because they were built beating a collection of 3-7 teams that played nobody of consequence themselves. Conversely, it can also identify a 3-7 team that's faced nothing but elite talent and teams vetted against the best. It's far from a perfect system, but it certainly has some merit.
Lastly, though, I think some people get confused in that CP is a rating service, not a ranking service. There is a difference.
ya’ll right bout stats, biased for sure and dont tell real story, garbage in garbage out, same reason del oro has new dc, da old one was paddin stats so told to go, wonder how many others dont report real facts, pay no attention to stats da game is about matchups.
While sabremetrics/stats certainly has its place, inevitably the game comes down to exactly what you said. Matchups.
I expect most of us agree that there are multiple factors that "tell the story" how a game may play out. When we talk about a "matchup" between two teams we are talking all the "factors" that are realized during execution of the game that "can" determine the result. I say "can" because not all factors are equal and some factors we think are significant in a specific matchup turn out to be insignificant for a number of reasons. Factors can span from the normal baseline factors i.e. quality of OL/DL play, capability of QB, home vs road, etc. to very specific i.e. weather conditions. Factors can be objective or subjective but for the most part I'd argue that most factors going into a game are subjective.
Interested to know what folks generically consider factors for football game matchups as that is what we spend a lot of time debating in this forum. Here are a few of a gazillion possible factors:
Interested to know what folks generically consider factors for football game matchups as that is what we spend a lot of time debating in this forum. Here are a few of a gazillion possible factors:
- Disciplined execution
- Coaching
- Road vs home
- Offensive schemes i.e. wing-T, pro-set, veer, pistol, spread
- Team experience playing against specific offensive schemes
- Team speed
- Weather conditions
- # of D1 athletes, IMG comes to mind as an extreme example
- Conditioning
- # of skill players on O & D & special teams
- Consistent & strong offensive run and/or pass game
- Consistent & strong defense against run and/or pass
- Injuries
- ?
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