There is one school in the SFL who has 8 kids in eighth grade being held back in their youth program. No, it’s not Folsom.
Thoughts on 8th graders being held back for Sports
- Thread starter TheGoldenShower
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I coached Midgets for a couple years and we often played against opposition that had several freshman playing down. As long as they weren't over 14, they could play. Some of the youth programs took advantage of that rule and used kids that weren't top 2 on their frosh depth chart but were still pretty good. I suppose that's ok so long as the kid wasn't going to get playing time with the frosh team. It just created some competitive imbalance. I'm not sure what the situation is that you're talking about though.
Saw this in youth as well with another local program. Not an SFL program but used to be in the league with SFL youth teams. The program in question was asked to leave the league after a fairly short stay in the league. Definite competitive imbalance was created.
I think we all know the answer.... its one thing for a parent to hold back a kid who is young in 1st grade but when you start seeing these shenanigans go on in 8th grade its clear that the motivation is sports and not academics, otherwise that would have been addressed earlier on in life. And honestly most of these parents/kids who do this might game the system frosh and soph years but eventually it evens out and you who wants 19 year old seniors in HS? Then there is a toll mentally on a kid who all of a sudden isn't going go graduate with the kids he's gone to school with for the past 8 years? Nobody looks at that stuff.
You could eliminate this by making 19 year olds ineligible for sports in HS. (If you turned 19 during the school year).
You could eliminate this by making 19 year olds ineligible for sports in HS. (If you turned 19 during the school year).
not lookin past their noses, and for what high school football, lot more to life lol!
This predates 8th grade and football. I saw lots of parents hold their sons back before starting kindergarten so that the boys would be not be at a disadvantage to bigger/stronger/faster boys as they grew up. As a CYO basketball coach (and athletic director at an Oakland diocese program), we knew for a fact that many of the other programs' American teams were loaded with boys who were effectively playing a grade down every year. Maybe not so surprising, it was effectively exclusive to boys - you rarely saw girls held back like that.
A certain NCS school has a signal caller who did the same thing. Seems like it's becoming more and more common.
In this youth league 9th graders are not eligible for play. I would say 3/8 would start on Frosh if not JV. One kid is 6’2 175 and the best athlete in the league.
I think California is just catching up to the things people do on the east coast. I think eventually dls might start getting the best talent in the area to compete with Bosco and md
Does the EBAL All-League team even have as many highly rated D1 recruits as MD or Bosco? What would the line be if the they played? The CCS All-Section team would probably be an underdog against either.
Given that it’s usually about 1/2 DLS guy’s on the 1st & 2nd teams, there aren’t a whole lot of all leaguers coming from the other schools. So I would say no. Not sure how they’ll work it this year, if the Mountain and Valley will have their own squads or 1 squad from all 10 teams.
Its one thing for a parent to hold a kid back in kindergarten or 1st grade but doing 2 years of 8th grade is a lot more blatant. The sad thing is most of these kids aren't going to play in college anyway. If they were good enough in 8th grade it wouldn't matter. And if they are off the spectrum then you have a JT Daniels situation and he just ends up skipping last year of HS because the very system that was gamed actually backfires on you.
I have been Very vocal about being pro transfer, as far as not trying to legislate transferring out. But parents are doing a huge disservice to their children holding their kids back, and that garbage annoys me.
That's because we all know the girls will be smarter, tougher and more mature by the time they get to High School
Here's wishing you great football
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Personally i love the idea of parents choosing to hold their kid back in 8th grade especially if they think their child needs more time to grow academically and physically before moving on to the high school level. Redshirting they call it. Im suprised more parents dont take advantage of it.
How does repeating eighth grade help “grow” a teen academically before HS?
Without mentioning any names I know a guy who's currently in the NFL from the area and he was held back in the 8th grade for athletic reasons. He's in the NFL today for two reasons. One is genetics and the other reason is he's simply talented enough to be there. The same kid get's the same full Power 5 ride if he isn't held back. I also know people who have kids that are marginal at best players and they think that holding their kids back in the 8th grade and/or investing big bucks in professional instruction will somehow make a difference. It's sad really, for the most part kids that aren't cut out for the next level don't make it there no matter what we as parents do.
I think some do it now not because they think it'll lead to a scholarship, but so their kids have a better chance to play/start. By redshirting, their kids aren't at a year's physical development disadvantage either when competing for playing time, or, when lining up against other teams. This is SoCal we're talking about where parents love bragging about how their kid plays/starts for so-and-so team.
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.....maybe doubles their opportunities to get an invite from a Coed to the "Sadie Hawkin's Dance"...?...emotional boosting.
That’s funny Crete. Normally I’d LOL but after Kavanaugh’s whiny crocodile tears today it’s not easy.
Now I have cousins in Texas. And yes they started their son's in school at 6 not 5. I guess that's what a lot of parents do. My son was still 4 when he started kindergarten. But I didn't expect my son to do sports. When my son at 3 years took the fat plastic bat and put it under his chin like a violin. Takes his toy golf club and uses it like a bow. Not an athlete more musician.
Are these kids going to the same school for 8th grade twice? Or do they go to some charter/private school for that 2nd 8th grade year before transferring to HS? My guess is its the later. The private school will gladly take somebody's tuition even if the kid is driving to school.
There are a lot of reasons why it happens. I just don't think its right or makes a difference in the long run.
There are a lot of reasons why it happens. I just don't think its right or makes a difference in the long run.
1315,
As an educator when i first read your post, it kinda made me laugh. Mainly because i come in contact with a lot of people, sadly enough parents, who dont place a lot of focus on education. They tend to say the same thing, or something along those lines. Especially when we recommend their kid repeat a class or grade. Lets use reading for example. Johnny does well at reading, but he lacks the ability to comprehend what he just read in 5 out of 10 trials. That means he maybe able to recognizes words, pronounce those words, but he may lack the ability to consistently comprehend or process or retain the information he reads. Probably because he is more focused on pronouncing the words instead of recognizing the meaning behind the words that the writer was trying to convey. Or he just needs to strenghten his vocabulary. In most cases johnny is a good enough reader to move on to the next grade, but at a later cost. I see too many kids struggling in the classroom and fall behind because they dont have the fundamentals down. For this reason i strongly suggest parents hold their kid back to give them time to develop or as i previously stated academically grow. Espically before moving on to hs where your transcripts and grades become so important, and have such an impact on your ability to get accepted into college. In regards to holding your child back for sports, i see no issue in that either. If mom and dad want their child to play sports but feel he/she needs to mature and develop an additional year, so what so be it. Too many people feel like they know whats bests for someone elses situation, me included sometimes. Sometimes we just might be right, but im still pro choice for parents and them doing what they think is best for their family, even if i think otherwise.
It doesn’t take nine years to find out a child needs to be held back. I don’t buy this trash that There is a any significant number of kids that do just fine k-7 and then ALL OF A SUDDEN they fall so far behind in the 8th grade that they need to take the drastic step of repeating the grade. Absolute garbage.
Speed city,
I cant speak for every parent on why they made the decision to hold their child back, but this has been my experience as a school administrator. I respect your point of view tho. Sounds like we can agree to disagree on the subject. Thanks for responding. Seems to be a good topic that a lot of people have input on.
I don’t disagree with the premise of kids being held back that aren’t ready to move forward, I just find it laughable that it takes 9 years to figure this out. A kid is held back in the 8th grade because:
A) their parents failed them
B) their teachers failed them
C) they want an advantage in athletics
D) some combination of A, B, and/or C
Kids don’t perform at grade level for the 8 years of K-7 and then suddenly fall so far behind in the eighth grade that they need to be held back.
answer is C & very shortsighted
I think 8th grade is the most convenient grade to hold a child back so you don't mess him up at school both academically and socially. K-7 really isn't helping them learn anything new unless they had problems with basic math and English. In 8th grade you're going into more complex math, and starting to write longer papers and reports, where an extra year could help. Holding them back in 8th grade also lets them go into high school on the ground floor with equal peers. If you hold someone back in the middle of high school, all of sudden all of his/her friends will be upperclassmen and that person will have to find a new group of friends, which everyone who's been to high school knows it isn't easy once cliques have developed.
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Sacchiefs, Speedcity51 does bring up a critical point.
I won't put you on the spot as an administrator, but the school guidance counselor, and teachers input, should have pinpointed critical issues in regards to student's needs and deficiencies, long before 8th grade.
What schools would you be relating to? Is it Private? Large public? Small suburb?
Growing up in Brooklyn , I went to what was considered the toughest Junior high school in the country. There is a book written about my school called " Undercover Teacher" It was an expose written by a Daily news reporter in 1960.
7th to 9th grade. Kids left back two, even three years. I had a kid in my 9th grade class who was 17 going on 18. That was of course the extreme.
Back to my original point, school administration should be dealing with academic issues long before high school.
Here's wishing you great football
You guys are missing the point!! This is 100% athletically motivated. End of story.
speedcity, "Kids don’t perform at grade level for the 8 years of K-7 and then suddenly fall so far behind in the eighth grade that they need to be held back."
marcskit, "I won't put you on the spot as an administrator, but the school guidance counselor, and teachers input, should have pinpointed critical issues"
I encourage you guys to re-read my post. I do not make these claims in the example i provided on reading comprehension? In my example i stated Johnny has the demonstrated the ability to read and comprehend a passage but only does so 5 out 10 trails. this would indicate johhny has the displayed the ability to move on if the parent chooses or the parents can hold johhny back to give him more time to fine tune this skill set.
marcskit, "I won't put you on the spot as an administrator, but the school guidance counselor, and teachers input, should have pinpointed critical issues"
I encourage you guys to re-read my post. I do not make these claims in the example i provided on reading comprehension? In my example i stated Johnny has the demonstrated the ability to read and comprehend a passage but only does so 5 out 10 trails. this would indicate johhny has the displayed the ability to move on if the parent chooses or the parents can hold johhny back to give him more time to fine tune this skill set.
I don’t know where to start. “...8Th most convenient....so you don’t mess them up academically and socially.”
1. Publics must assess students EVERY year from K-12. If there is a notion by 2nd/3rd grade that academic/social norms are not being reached, parents are legally bound to be informed. And this is where, as SpeedCity stated above, “parenting” enters the equation. (Source: Lifetime WCCUSD educator, 20 years Second/third and 15 years as a El Prin/GATE Admin.)
2. Kids are resilient. Whether they skip a year bc they’re brilliant or get shipped to the continuation (source 15 years,) or held back, they find their niche/clique.
3. Friends are friends.....unless they’re held back for athletic reasons or transfer for the same. Then likely not. Self-imposed exiles receive little pity for gaming.
4. K-7 they “don’t learn anything new.” With all due respect, that’s simply ignorant.
Anecdotally, B3k cites a “successful” holdback above. Not cited was the “twin” neighbor who tried the same tactic...and failed.
Hey, it’s Friday! FB.
Exactly. If it weren't why would this be so disproportionate for boys instead of girls?
I actually think you hit on the right solution to all of these things. Much like the Little League rules, there should be a rule in place across that country that "in order to be eligible, you must have been born by this specific date," in order to participate in officially sanctioned high school sports. No 19 year old should be playing high school sports. Period.
Hatch- we are talking 8th grade...not HS:
http://www.bayareaparent.com/Article/Should-Your-Child-Repeat-a-Grade/
And ultimately it has no impact on HS graduation rates:
https://www.npr.org/sections/ed/201...tudy-holding-kids-back-doesn-t-hold-them-back
http://www.bayareaparent.com/Article/Should-Your-Child-Repeat-a-Grade/
And ultimately it has no impact on HS graduation rates:
https://www.npr.org/sections/ed/201...tudy-holding-kids-back-doesn-t-hold-them-back
I did getting story from a bunch of hens. At Oakdale/ Tracy scrimmage. I was sitting in little available shade. When a rather large group of mothers and grandmothers. And overheard the conversation about how one of the parents had their son held back in 8th grade so he could have a better chance of starting at QB next year.. Now as far as I know this could have just been gossip. But the kid starting JV QB is a freshman. From watching the kid play thinking he could be starting varsity QB next year as sophomore. But from watching the kids competing for starting Freshman QB looked tough between the two kids now. Oh and I should get a pass on the reference of the ladies being old hens, well one of the grandmother said sorry for me being surrounded by a bunch of old hens. Now not saying I wasn't thinking that in my mind!
