Championship Games

[THEOC89]

If Pitt or CVC can’t beat DLS then they don’t deserve to be crowned section champ. They don’t deserve to move on.

PITT did Validate themselves by Beating a really good Manteca Team and winning impressively…. My question is, what the heck was Manteca doing in SJS D2?…. They should have been SJS D1 all day long….

But it agree, the loser moves on thing is a bad look for the NCS and it is just another application of The Folsom rule where no one wants to have their season end at the hands of DLS…..

What would have been funny is if CVC could have beat DLS in league and knocked them into NCS D1…. Then the loser of the NCS Open Between PITT and CVC would have had to play DLS anyway…. 🤣🤣

 

[MTsince2004]

PITT did Validate themselves by Beating a really good Manteca Team and winning impressively…. My question is, what the heck was Manteca doing in SJS D2?…. They should have been SJS D1 all day long….

But it agree, the loser moves on thing is a bad look for the NCS and it is just another application of The Folsom rule where no one wants to have their season end at the hands of DLS…..

What would have been funny is if CVC could have beat DLS in league and knocked them into NCS D1…. Then the loser of the NCS Open Between PITT and CVC would have had to play DLS anyway…. 🤣🤣

Manteca is actually a D3 school by enrollment and league alignment (Valley Oak League). They were bumped into D2 for continued success. Now that they have won the D2 championship, they may very well be bumped to D1 like Central Catholic was for this season. It just takes time to go through the process, if it even happens.

 

[ThunderRam]

Bellarmine lost 6 times four in league. That’s why they are playing in D-3A. You can also argue that Pitt lost and did not win a section title and that losers should sit at home like MD

Nobody should be crying Argentina for Mater Dei. That said, it is pretty lame that they are sitting at home while a sectional loser like PITT continues to play on given the gift of double elimination.

I sure hope no other sections contemplate following the NCS‘s path after seeing PITT (possibly) bring home a State title.

 

[MTsince2004]

Nobody should be crying Argentina for Mater Dei. That said, it is pretty lame that they are sitting at home while a sectional loser like PITT continues to play on given the gift of double elimination.

I sure hope no other sections contemplate following the NCS‘s path after seeing PITT (possibly) bring home a State title.

Personally, I can see an argument for and against the NCS model. I just don't see a good argument for inconsistency across all the sections.

I'm not sure why the CIF can't just declare it one way or the other. I realize that each section has a lot of autonomy for setting up their playoff structure, but this is a fundamental difference that benefits the NCS.

I guess the CIF just doesn't really care to regulate it. After all, each section is guaranteed a certain number of representatives in their regional play-in games. It seems all that matters is the games actually get played, not so much how the teams got there.

 

[ArmchairGOAT]

Bellarmine is about 1600 roughly. But one thing many don’t know about, is there robotics team is almost as big as the football team spots wise. And that’s not a joke, one of my foreman is huge into robotics. It’s not your ordinary 1600 all boys full of jocks. If it was they would dominate in basketball as well. Only reason why they did at times was thanks to good coaching. But most of their kids who could play past high school hit the Ivy League

It's interesting with Bellarmine's 1,600 all boys enrollment and a long and storied sports history, they have not won a State Title in football or basketball. They did play for a state title in football when they upset the mighty Folsom Bulldogs, but came up short. They do dominate most seasons in the other sports such as Baseball, Cross Country, Tennis, Swimming, Water Polo, Volleyball, Tennis and Water Polo. Tiny SHP in tony Atherton, though, has been running the table in Water Polo in recent years. Wishing the Bells the best this weekend.

 

[observer22]

How is Bellarmine playing in CCS D-II any different than SRV, Rocklin, and Del Oro playing in their respective sections’ D-II? All from what is supposed to be the sections’ top leagues.

Stop with the “only the very top teams should advance” nonsense. That was never the intent of the CIF playoffs.

SRV is D2 by enrollment. They weren’t put there because they weren’t in the top 8 of their section. Bellarmine would have played DLS had they been in the NCS if they made the playoffs.

 

[rwccaptain42]

It's interesting with Bellarmine's 1,600 all boys enrollment and a long and storied sports history, they have not won a State Title in football or basketball. They did play for a state title in football when they upset the mighty Folsom Bulldogs, but came up short. They do dominate most seasons in the other sports such as Baseball, Cross Country, Tennis, Swimming, Water Polo, Volleyball, Tennis and Water Polo. Tiny SHP in tony Atherton, though, has been running the table in Water Polo in recent years. Wishing the Bells the best this weekend.

and Lacrosse and in the wcal. football has been solid as well

 

[MJ2014]

At least Pitt is one of the top teams in their section. Is Bellarmine?

Pitt is legit, and will represent NorCal as they should. CCS outside of the D1 division is borderline terrible. D2 CCS is competitive, but teams with 6 losses should not be playing in a state bowl game, does not feel right or look good for that division.

 

[HSWIZARD73]

Pitt is legit, and will represent NorCal as they should. CCS outside of the D1 division is borderline terrible. D2 CCS is competitive, but teams with 6 losses should not be playing in a state bowl game, does not feel right or look good for that division.

I agree. Why give the 4.0 school any chance. Bellarmine is above and beyond athletics. A lot more happens in the CCS when it comes to then and they beat who they had to to get there. Hopefully the robotics team comes out and supports them.

So with that said who should have been in front of Bellarmine. Nobody has yet to answer that question 2-3 times now.

 

[Scoop and Score]

Bellarmine would probably be ranked between #8-#10 in the CCS. And they have the largest population (by far) of boys of any school in the section. The entire process of these “championship” games is ridiculous. Different sections have different rules/guidelines for qualifying and now you end up with ridiculous results. My suggestion is to have the best of the south play the best of the north for a true champ. And then have the best of 3 from south/north in enrollment divisions (large, medium/small) meet for actual state championships (whether or not said team won their section title). The way it is setup now, it is waaayyyy more advantageous to finish #9 than #8 in the CCS. Finish #9 and you dodge playing Serra and then have a real chance to move to a NorCal game…finish #8 and you have Serra hang 50 on you in the first half of the first round. (Same can be said down the line…better to finish #17 than #16, #25 than #24)…does this make any sense? No.

Agree, Bellarmine finishing 5th alone in the WCAL would be outrageous 5-10 years ago. They had 4 times the male population (with no boundaries) compared to Vanden. This system has hurt the strong smaller school program. They play Laguna Hills who would finish 7th in the WCAL in nothing more than another game.

 

[kiddman32]

Looks like DirecTV's channels 690 and/or 691 will have some of the higher-division games... The channels are called "Access SportsNet" or somesuch.

 

[Sacchiefs]

The weather report for the LA area this Saturday says 51 degrees at night with a 66% chance of rain. Sounds like some great football weather!

Serra beat DLS and Folsom on the road this year to solidify the NorCal crown. One more road win away from potentially going down as one of the best NorCal team of all-time if they pull out the upset.

Can they do it.

If so, what will it take? The power and combination of a Buster Douglas? Or the technique and brass balls of an Evander Holyfield? The effort and determination of a Diaz? Or the physicality and relentless pressure of a Khabib? The experience and knowledge of a Mayweather? Or the courage and will power of an Ali? The power and speed of a Tyson? Or the flexibility and agility of a Sugar?

Idk but where ever there is a fighter, there is a "Fighters chance".

With nothing to lose and everything to gain, Serra comes out swinging! Serra 24-23

Good luck to all of the NorCal teams

 

[SJS Lord]

Can they do it.

No

 

[MTsince2004]

The weather report for the LA area this Saturday says 51 degrees at night with a 66% chance of rain. Sounds like some great football weather!

Serra beat DLS and Folsom on the road this year to solidify the NorCal crown. One more road win away from potentially going down as one of the best NorCal team of all-time if they pull out the upset.

Can they do it.

If so, what will it take? The power and combination of a Buster Douglas? Or the technique and brass balls of an Evander Holyfield? The effort and determination of a Diaz? Or the physicality and relentless pressure of a Khabib? The experience and knowledge of a Mayweather? Or the courage and will power of an Ali? The power and speed of a Tyson? Or the flexibility and agility of a Sugar?

Idk but where ever there is a fighter, there is a "Fighters chance".

With nothing to lose and everything to gain, Serra comes out swinging! Serra 24-23

Good luck to all of the NorCal teams

I like your attitude, but I don't like the odds.

I'm rooting for NorCal in ALL games, though. Best of luck to all participants.

 

[parkdale]

How is Bellarmine playing in CCS D-II any different than SRV, Rocklin, and Del Oro playing in their respective sections’ D-II? All from what is supposed to be the sections’ top leagues.

Stop with the “only the very top teams should advance” nonsense. That was never the intent of the CIF playoffs.

What IS the intent of this playoff bowl system? Why was the system changed and why are fifth-place teams playing in December?

 

[WCAL75]

What IS the intent of this playoff bowl system? Why was the system changed and why are fifth-place teams playing in December?

The CCS has a point system that I have no idea how it all works. Hopefully someone from the CCS that knows how it works can answer that question for you. I think you accumulate points playing WCAL teams and league champions. Then there are A B and C leagues. Anyway In the CCS playoffs Bellarmine won their section title. Then they boat raced their regional opponent. While Pitt never won a section title. They lost and should have sat at home but advanced to the regionals anyways under NCS rules. It appears sections can have there own rules without interference from the CIF. Just look at all the SS transfers.

 

[MTsince2004]

The CCS has a point system that I have no idea how it all works. Hopefully someone from the CCS that knows how it works can answer that question for you. I think you accumulate points playing WCAL teams and league champions. Then there are A B and C leagues. Anyway In the CCS playoffs Bellarmine won their section title. Then they boat raced their regional opponent. While Pitt never won a section title. They lost and should have sat at home but advanced to the regionals anyways under NCS rules. It appears sections can have there own rules without interference from the CIF. Just look at all the SS transfers.

Pitt did win the D1 title in the NCS. They did not win the Open title.

 

[WCAL75]

Pitt did win the D1 title in the NCS. They did not win the Open title.

They lost in the open. Time to go home. Then they played one game to win D-1? That’s double elimination. That’s an NCS rule that should be done away with. When you lose you go home in the playoffs.Like I said before if the SS did that you would have both SJB and MD in the SBGs. Sections have control on whether playoffs are enrolment based or equity based. The only thing I know is when I played in the playoffs if we lost we were out.

 

[MTsince2004]

They lost in the open. Time to go home. Then they played one game to win D-1? That’s double jeopardy. That’s an NCS rule that should be done away with. When you lose you go home in the playoffs.Like I said before if the SS did that you would have both SJB and MD in the SBGs. Sections have control on whether playoffs are enrolment based or equity based. The only thing I know is when I played in the playoffs if we lost we were out.

I'm not advocating for the format. You are entitled to your opinion regarding it, of course. I was just pointing out that they did actually win the D1 championship game. They did not automatically qualify as the D1 winner when they lost the Open.

 

[Cal 14]

What IS the intent of this playoff bowl system? Why was the system changed and why are fifth-place teams playing in December?

The intent is inclusion for all competition levels.

5th place tams are playing in December because they defeated their respective playoff opponents.

To address your likely follow-up question of "why are 5th place teams advancing to the playoffs", the answer is that they qualified under their sectional guidelines.

 

[lessgetit916]

Nobody should be crying Argentina for Mater Dei. That said, it is pretty lame that they are sitting at home while a sectional loser like PITT continues to play on given the gift of double elimination.

I sure hope no other sections contemplate following the NCS‘s path after seeing PITT (possibly) bring home a State title.

Wouldn't be shocked if CCS adopts something along these lines. The current process of rankings teams and setting them into divisions accordingly is what is rewarding bottom feeders and sending 7 of your best 8 representatives home.

 

[colhenrylives]

It is a brave new world in feel-good, no-fail, everyone's-a-winner California. The philosophy now is: Have post-season competition at all levels of excellence (or lack of same) and allow teams to compete against comparable foes, good, bad and awful. So, yes, teams with truly hideous regular-season records can, and do, wind up playing for CIF bowl crowns. These are not state titles per se because true playoffs are not involved. So we have the sad spectacle of a AAA champion, Lincoln, playing in the lowest possible bowl affair without having to compete against a non-San Francisco opponent to qualify for this weekend's game at Kezar Stadium. Below the first, say, five bowl games (maybe even seven), the entire exercise starts to become rather perplexing, if not meaningless. But lots of banners are hoisted. Lots of banquets are held. Lots of publicity is generated. And we call can feel good, up to a point.

 

[Sacchiefs]

I like your attitude, but I don't like the odds.

I'm rooting for NorCal in ALL games, though. Best of luck to all participants.

Appreciate MT. I believe a confident and optimistic attitude is extremely critical to have in this world, especially for young men who are too often raised to be passive. As an alpha male I cannot visualize accepting defeat before a battle. Plus, I love a challenge and a good fight. I hope Serra loves em just as much as I do, because yes the odds definitely appear to be stacked against them. All the sweeter tho if so called David beats Goliath this Saturday.

 

[mybrainhurts]

The CCS has a point system that I have no idea how it all works. Hopefully someone from the CCS that knows how it works can answer that question for you. I think you accumulate points playing WCAL teams and league champions. Then there are A B and C leagues. Anyway In the CCS playoffs Bellarmine won their section title. Then they boat raced their regional opponent. While Pitt never won a section title. They lost and should have sat at home but advanced to the regionals anyways under NCS rules. It appears sections can have there own rules without interference from the CIF. Just look at all the SS transfers.

Santa Teresa finished at 2-3 in pretty weak MHAL and 5-5 overall. They were placed in a Division with B and C division teams and won CCS and beat another A division 4th place finisher for the Nor Cal title. Let's face it there are quite a few other more deserving A division team that deserve to be playing this weekend but those team faced much tougher competition in the playoffs.

 

[bella123]

It is a brave new world in feel-good, no-fail, everyone's-a-winner California. The philosophy now is: Have post-season competition at all levels of excellence (or lack of same) and allow teams to compete against comparable foes, good, bad and awful. So, yes, teams with truly hideous regular-season records can, and do, wind up playing for CIF bowl crowns. These are not state titles per se because true playoffs are not involved. So we have the sad spectacle of a AAA champion, Lincoln, playing in the lowest possible bowl affair without having to compete against a non-San Francisco opponent to qualify for this weekend's game at Kezar Stadium. Below the first, say, five bowl games (maybe even seven), the entire exercise starts to become rather perplexing, if not meaningless. But lots of banners are hoisted. Lots of banquets are held. Lots of publicity is generated. And we call can feel good, up to a point.

 

[Bubba3000]

Ah yes, the ol participation trophy 🏆!

 

[Cal 14]

Santa Teresa finished at 2-3 in pretty weak MHAL and 5-5 overall. They were placed in a Division with B and C division teams and won CCS and beat another A division 4th place finisher for the Nor Cal title. Let's face it there are quite a few other more deserving A division team that deserve to be playing this weekend but those team faced much tougher competition in the playoffs.

Can we agree that no one playoff setup is going to appease everyone? We have:

1. Bellarmine is in too low of a division because it's a big school

2. Bellarmine isn't ranked high enough

3. Santa Teresa isn't ranked high enough

4. B and C teams were knocked out by the A teams (ignoring the fact that they are in B leagues so that they don't have to face A teams during the regular season)

5. People ignoring that there are some big schools in the B and C leagues

Wah, wah, wah... Santa Teresa advanced. The CCS chooses to make their divisions a hierarchy such that D-I is better than D-II, which is better than D-III, etc. Really, that's how it should be. More and more sections are moving towards that ideal, so just deal with it.

CCS is one of the only sections without widespread blowouts in the first round of the playoffs. If you don't have equity playoffs, people would be bitching about having to play powerhouses. Don't come on here telling us that DLS vs James Logan is better than Bellarmine vs Wilcox.

Everyone else goes on and on about how the lower divisions don't mean anything, but then complains that certain teams aren't in those lower divisions.

Alright? No one cares about the tears that have been spreading on this board. Let's just cheer on the NorCal teams against the SoCal opponents. Is that so difficult?

 

[parkdale]

Can we agree that no one playoff setup is going to appease everyone? We have:

1. Bellarmine is in too low of a division because it's a big school

2. Bellarmine isn't ranked high enough

3. Santa Teresa isn't ranked high enough

4. B and C teams were knocked out by the A teams (ignoring the fact that they are in B leagues so that they don't have to face A teams during the regular season)

5. People ignoring that there are some big schools in the B and C leagues

Wah, wah, wah... Santa Teresa advanced. The CCS chooses to make their divisions a hierarchy such that D-I is better than D-II, which is better than D-III, etc. Really, that's how it should be. More and more sections are moving towards that ideal, so just deal with it.

CCS is one of the only sections without widespread blowouts in the first round of the playoffs. If you don't have equity playoffs, people would be bitching about having to play powerhouses. Don't come on here telling us that DLS vs James Logan is better than Bellarmine vs Wilcox.

Everyone else goes on and on about how the lower divisions don't mean anything, but then complains that certain teams aren't in those lower divisions.

Alright? No one cares about the tears that have been spreading on this board. Let's just cheer on the NorCal teams against the SoCal opponents. Is that so difficult?

Expressing concern with a system or disagreeing with it should not be confused with whining. If all people did was root on the home team, then a message board would not be very interesting.

But at least if we're going to have this curious system can we refrain from calling mediocre teams who find their way into low divisions "state champs" and more properly designate them as "state playoff bowl champions."

 

[Scoop and Score]

Expressing concern with a system or disagreeing with it should not be confused with whining. If all people did was root on the home team, then a message board would not be very interesting.

But at least if we're going to have this curious system can we refrain from calling mediocre teams who find their way into low divisions "state champs" and more properly designate them as "state playoff bowl champions."

Take the top 4-6 CCS in open playoff. Put rest in enrollment, simple.

 

[mybrainhurts]

Can we agree that no one playoff setup is going to appease everyone? We have:

1. Bellarmine is in too low of a division because it's a big school

2. Bellarmine isn't ranked high enough

3. Santa Teresa isn't ranked high enough

4. B and C teams were knocked out by the A teams (ignoring the fact that they are in B leagues so that they don't have to face A teams during the regular season)

5. People ignoring that there are some big schools in the B and C leagues

Wah, wah, wah... Santa Teresa advanced. The CCS chooses to make their divisions a hierarchy such that D-I is better than D-II, which is better than D-III, etc. Really, that's how it should be. More and more sections are moving towards that ideal, so just deal with it.

CCS is one of the only sections without widespread blowouts in the first round of the playoffs. If you don't have equity playoffs, people would be bitching about having to play powerhouses. Don't come on here telling us that DLS vs James Logan is better than Bellarmine vs Wilcox.

Everyone else goes on and on about how the lower divisions don't mean anything, but then complains that certain teams aren't in those lower divisions.

Alright? No one cares about the tears that have been spreading on this board. Let's just cheer on the NorCal teams against the SoCal opponents. Is that so difficult?

Santa Teresa hasn’t been ranked in over 20 years. Playing for a State championship cheapens the state championships. You can’t beat 3 of the other 5 teams in you own A league but here’s your participation state championship. Lame.

 

[Scoop and Score]

Santa Teresa hasn’t been ranked in over 20 years. Playing for a State championship cheapens the state championships. You can’t beat 3 of the other 5 teams in you own A league but here’s your participation state championship. Lame.

It’s a “bowl game” against a music school called Classical Academy. They are a D7 school down south.

 

[Cal 14]

But at least if we're going to have this curious system can we refrain from calling mediocre teams who find their way into low divisions "state champs" and more properly designate them as "state playoff bowl champions."

I don't get why adults on this board think it okay to crap on, and diminish, a bunch of kids' experiences.

 

[Cal 14]

Santa Teresa hasn’t been ranked in over 20 years. Playing for a State championship cheapens the state championships. You can’t beat 3 of the other 5 teams in you own A league but here’s your participation state championship. Lame.

When has Pinole Valley been ranked?

Are you aware that of the 15 teams representing NorCal in the state championship games, 9 did not win league titles?

 

[lessgetit916]

Take the top 4-6 CCS in open playoff. Put rest in enrollment, simple.

You don't have to go back the the enrollment set up and I don't think that is the answer anyway but having a smaller Open Division would solve a few different problems. For starters there aren't eight elite teams and as we've seen each of the last couple of years the # 8 team is usually Dead on Arrival. Why make this entire system that looks out for everyone while also screwing over a couple of your better teams. 2019 Half Moon Bay was a B team, 2021 Aptos didn't even win their league and same for 2022 Palma who all had zero shot against the 1 seed.

Make the Open 4 teams. Best of the Best. Your true champion. This would also mean your 5-8 teams would make up a "better" D2 bracket and same with D3, 4 etc. as teams would get bumped down a division. If this means 4 less teams make the playoffs maybe they address the idea of being a 3-7 team and making into D4 or 5 and then out of no where having that "magical" turn around.

 

[Cal 14]

You don't have to go back the the enrollment set up and I don't think that is the answer anyway but having a smaller Open Division would solve a few different problems. For starters there aren't eight elite teams and as we've seen each of the last couple of years the # 8 team is usually Dead on Arrival. Why make this entire system that looks out for everyone while also screwing over a couple of your better teams. 2019 Half Moon Bay was a B team, 2021 Aptos didn't even win their league and same for 2022 Palma who all had zero shot against the 1 seed.

Make the Open 4 teams. Best of the Best. Your true champion. This would also mean your 5-8 teams would make up a "better" D2 bracket and same with D3, 4 etc. as teams would get bumped down a division. If this means 4 less teams make the playoffs maybe they address the idea of being a 3-7 team and making into D4 or 5 and then out of no where having that "magical" turn around.

Again, the CCS is unfairly targeted. This section already has the fewest playoff spots by percentage as it is.

Now, the idea of a 4-team Open is something that the SDS already does. That said, it's not really an Open division, since only teams designated at D-I before the season starts can participate.

There has already been talk about adding a 6th division. Perhaps adding only 4 teams, making it Open (4 teams) and D-I thru V (8 each) is the solution. I would also argue for no team lower than 5th place in a league to advance.

One side note, Aptos was tied with St. Francis through 3 qtrs last year in the first round of D-I. That was a pretty good Mariner team.

Any talk about enrollment divisions would be met with immediate dismissal by the CCS. They've already been there and it was often a disaster, just like it mostly is in the NCS.

 

[ararar]

The only thing that will fix the California playoff disaster is a true state playoff

 

[Streak One]

The only thing that will fix the California playoff disaster is a true state playoff

How would it be different than basketball? And there is plenty of complaining about that format too

 

[BigMann08]

I wonder if the people working

The only thing that will fix the California playoff disaster is a true state playoff

Indeed!

3 Open Divisions:
Large
Medium
Small

3 AADivisions
Large
Medium
Small

(If needed, 3 single A divisions)
Hold the Open State Championship games at Sofi Stadium!

 

[Bubba3000]

I don't get why adults on this board think it okay to crap on, and diminish, a bunch of kids' experiences.

Can’t we all just get along? 😝

 

[observer22]

When has Pinole Valley been ranked?

Are you aware that of the 15 teams representing NorCal in the state championship games, 9 did not win league titles?

And the much maligned Pittsburg Pirates are one of the 6 that did.