So what exactly are Pitt vs Clayton Valley playing for?
- Thread starter remc
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Oh ok, that makes more sense. That'll be worth watching then.Would be a good game on paper. Is this Friday or Saturday?
Yep - the DI NCS champ. Its a remake of the old "CCS runner-up move on" scenario that has been re-casted to circumvent the the CIF rule about losing playoff teams in the bowl games. Pittsburg is not good enough to win the NCS Open division playoffs so lets move the loser team to the DI bracket for more playoff competition. If the CIF allows this type of action, I expect for more daisy-chain movement for losing teams in other sections to happen. Imagine Southern Section MD, Servite, SJB and Cen10 teams in D-Open , D1-AA, D1-A and D2-AA divisions through daisy-chain play downward.
Yeah, it’s beyond lame.
We get it. Sometimes some very good teams go home, especially in a meat grinder tournament bracket.
But the loser moving on contradicts everything tournament play is all about.
Wait so the winner of this game gets to play in a Norcal game to go to state right? So here is a thought what happens to DLS then? What if they don’t get selected for the open? They just go home? Sorry it didn’t work out SF beat you and our losers need to advance? Some clarity here would be welcome.
To me not worth watching. Pitt just played a “playoff” game and lost. To me that equates to season over. Not mulligan, do over, keep going champ, you’re still the best etc. At least when I played sports that’s what it meant when your season ended with a loss in the playoff? This seems so wrong to me.
Agree with you on all counts, except these two teams are pretty evenly matched. Would be entertaining., but neither, especially Pitt. should be advancing. In fact, why aren't Clayton and DLS playing for the NCS Open? Isn't Clayton supposed to be playing big school division football? Pitt/DLS and Cal/Clayton should have been semi final games.So Clayton Valley never wanted to challenge for the Open?
Yeah I do agree with a lot of this! I pretty much just watch sports to be entertained at this point, unless I throw a few bucks on it. Usually could care less who wins. So on that metric it were to be a close well played game I’d say definitely maybe worth the watch. But to me it’s the fact it shouldn’t even be happening is kinda where I have issues and lose interest.
Well of course Pittsburg isn’t good enough to win open, no one has in 30 years!!! Ironically Pitt was the last. Without the recruiting machine SoCal style, there is no program in the NCS that will be able to beat DLS. It doesn’t matter how hard the coaches or kids work this off season. The unique circumstances and tradition at DLS are too much of a mountain for an NCS, or SJS, School to overcome right now. Only a WCAL type school can occasionally (SF) give them a run for their money.
OK, apparently, it seems fine in your book. Should CCS Serra/SF loser move on? Should NCS D1 loser Clayton Valley/Pittsburg move on? Should the SDS D1 or the LAS loser San Pedro/Birmingham move on? Should the loser of the SJS Rocklin/Folsom game move on? Should Should SJB, Servite, Cen10, MD losers move on - they would probably beat everyone in NorCal including DLS this year. Certainly by these rules, they can all move on to a regional Bowl game.
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I’ll ask again here. What happens to DLS if they are not selected to the open? If one of these two teams goes to D1 Norcal bowl game and SF gets open bid we’re does DLS end up?
I believe DLS will be be placed in DI-AA against a CS or SJS top team if CCS SF wins out. The NCS DI winner will probably be matched some other next top teams after that. IF the CCS D1 champ is Serra, these alignments will change to a more complicated bid seeding.
I don’t like it losers continuing on but it’s been 30 YEARS. Everyone is trying to beat DLS in The NCS, it’s literally insanity of DLS repeating 42-14 NCS championship games year after year.
What other alternative is there? If you are in the same division as DLS you will never have the opportunity to move on? Coach Galli can study and Pitt could practice 7 days a week from January to August and they still won’t sniff DLS next year.
I agree it sets a dangerous precedent, though. Why not do it in all divisions you can argue. At least NCS is not as asinine as CCS where 1700+ student Aragon is in the D5 (lowest) title game and SHC goes 3-7, gets smoked by 5-5 Riordan, and actually gets rewarded by now only going to playoffs but into a D3(!) bracket. They have 1500 students, it’s a large Catholic school, no business playing below the second bracket. No system is perfect though, look at the NCS D4 game. Newman and Marin Catholic, should be be placed in the second bracket (D2). A mix of common sense and yes even enrollment is needed.
I notice you didn't mention Menlo School with 795 students whipping the competition in CCS D2 or St. Francis-SCP with 213 students opposite Aragon (1695 students) in D5 finals. SF-SCP plowed through Cupertino (2,295 enrollment) and Los Altos (2,232 students) to extend their first ever playoff season. That's because you have to cherry pick teams to get your enrollment argument to work.
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Private enrollment is essentially meaningless if administration/vision puts athletics/football up as a priority…
Of course it is... because it doesn't fit your narrative. But the exact thing can be said of public school systems.
When you have an equity-based playoff system, you erase enrollment and private vs public school and other similar factors as criteria for division placement. You should focus your attention on why so many larger population schools are in lower divisions and quite a few lower population schools are in higher divisions in the CCS equity-based playoffs. This will tell the real story of your highly touted factors for division placement.
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You know, Pittsburg has and gets enough talent to beat DLS. Line play is the difference every time. Pitt has size and numbers along the line, and they're usually bigger than DLS. But their lines are just not as well coached, and lack the unit cohesion that DLS line play has.
These private school admins are in the wrong line of work if judging athletic talent is their thing and they are that good, I imagine a pro team would be after their services.
Although we went over this years ago, this isn’t actually true. It’s only true for football because of logistics. In a lot of other sports (basketball, baseball, volleyball, etc.), losers very often have advanced.
Pitt & Folsom have already played this year. Folsom vs. Serra really would be a battle of 2nd chance teams as each avenged their league losses by beating the league champs in the section final.
By definition single elimination tournament play — which is what most american fans are accustomed to and what most popular american sports typically use — losers don’t move on. Hence it goes against the grain as I said.
Like tennis tournaments. Like the NCAA basketball tournaments. Like the CFP. Like the NFL playoffs. Like most HS football playoff brackets, except the ones that suck and have it wrong.
And even sports that have “series” or “group play” instead of single game elimination don’t have losers of those series or groups moving on.
Anything that has a loser moving on is double elimination. Or nonsensical like the CCS/NCS is doing for football.
So again I say, losing teams advancing is counter to true tournament style play. The only exceptions are teams losing within a series or group play but still winning the requisite number of games or earning the requisite number of points needed to advance.
That’s not what happens in normal american football.
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